Tempe Streets crew workers use heavy machinery, Wednesday, July 28, 2010, to clean up while leveling out the bottom of Tempe Town Lake after the rubber dam on the lakes west end burst.
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Isn't a little naive to give more money to people who can't handle what they already have? Just once the public needs to say 'live within your means, we have to.'
"Live within your means, we have to" is a common canard of those who oppose any kind of bond or override.
As we should know, Americans are notorious for living well beyond their means. Buying McMansion they clearly can't afford, maxing out multiple credit cards, taking out second mortgages to buy their toys.
So let's stop with that one.
As to the other, we always should be suspicious of what government wants. But we have to balance that with what we know. And we know that schools have had their budgets cut over the last four years; that's not an opinion, that's reality.
And we know that Arizona has the lowest administrative costs of any public school education system in the United States.
And we know that schools have gone without capital funding for years, as the editorial points out. And whatever soft capital provided by the state has been used by many districts to help fill in budget losses in their everyday operations.
Thanks EVTrib for this quick run-down of important local issues. I've been focused on Prop 204 and the school overrides, so I have not yet researched the city's questions on the ballot. It's a great thing to have a news source that covers more local and regional news and information! [beam]
Yes education DOES need more funding.But this proposition is NOT the way to do it.
This proposition does not guarantee that the money raised by the tax will be IN ADDITION to the money normally voted by the Legislature for education.The Legislature will simple reduce the amount they designate for education by the amount brought in by the tax and declare they " saved " the taxpayers money.And then they will spend the " saved " money on some lobbiest pork project or on more private prisons.VOTE THIS DOWN AND MAKE THE LEGISLATURE INCREASE THEIR FUNDING FOR EDUCATION.
RIch, I'm glad to hear your urging of voters to "say no" to more spending. To really stop wasteful spending, I hope you're urging government representatives to cut military spending. Just think, if the military were cut like schools have been cut, we could be protecting our country for half the cost of what we're paying now! What I'd really like to see is for Arizona school administrators to give a lesson to the Pentagon about how to cut the waste out of a budget. ......... A little history: From the late 1980s to 2000, education funding was cut more and more. WIth Prop 301 in 2001, funding started to improve until it hit a high in 2007. That "High point" was still LESS than 1987, and Arizona has been ranked in the bottom of states for per-pupil funding for 20 years. So 2007 really was not bountiful by any means. Since 2007, Arizona has cut education funding by 26%! .... During this time, Arizona's NAEP scores (national tests) have Improved! ( not a lot, but some. And other states' scores have improved better that Arizona, as they have invested more in schools.) ***** Just imagine if Military SPending were cut like that! We could have every bit of safety that we have now, plus some improvement, and we'd be spending 26% LESS than in 1987! But no, defense spending has Increased from $500 billion in the 1980s to over $700 billion now. (peak to peak, adjusted for defense inflation) Why only demand that schools become more efficient? Why not also demand that the military become more efficient, too? Why not demand that prisons become more efficient?
Please, the school funding is just nonsense. The more you spend on it, the less the kids learn. Education funding long ago past the point of diminishing returns, and most of the money is skimmed before it even gets close to the kids. Cut the budgets more, test scores went up, not down since the school budgets got cut. If the expense frills go away, the kids have nothing left to do but learn. Which is pretty much what you want if you think about it.
A. "skimmed" sounds good but that's all it is -- skimmed by whom? for what? Be specific, Rich. Of course, you won't be, but the claim fits your narrative, so go for it.
B. Budgets cut, scores went up -- got any proof of that one?
C. This isn't spending more money, this is keeping the current funding -- which is about $200 million less than it was four years ago.
D. Frills? Gee, how time washes memory . . . not too long ago, you argued for more "frills" -- guess you were for "frills" before you were against them.
A) Busses, Books, Broken windows. Who sells the school busses? Who gets a bit of baksheesh on each one? Books? Who buys? I mean do you need new ones? Does one and one equal different things every year? A bit of bribes says so. Wrote two that really didn't advance anything, got paid, only corruption made that possible Windows? They break, who breaks them to replace them when they don't? And that's only what I know about. Please Mike you were inside, if you didn't notice you should examine your thought processes.
B) Scores in 2007, scores now? Nuff said?
C) You need to spend less, cut down to learning that gets to the classroom
D) Art isn't frills, science may be because it borders on religion, math is an abstraction, art is reality. Science and math are frills, cut them. But then you wouldn't be allowed to teach literature in that the one thing that is clear is that you don't understand it. Maybe this will help: "An original is a creation motivated by desire. Any reproduction of an originals motivated be necessity. It is marvelous that we are the only species that creates gratuitous forms. To create is divine, to reproduce is human. " - Man Ray
Rich - Books must be constantly updated, because one year, Christopher Columbus was a visionary, and the next year he was a racist oppressor.
I'm curious. Has Mesa ever done an override before? What happened to the school's funding the following year? Was it reduced, with politicians funneling money away, knowing they had tricked the sheep into funding a popular program so they'll have more money to spend on their own pet projects?
Over $105 mil for bonds? In this age of uncertainty, with Bush's tax cuts hanging on a thread and obamacare forcing unprecedented costs to all businesses, how can the electorate afford this? Only a liberal like Mike M. knows for sure.
Don, Mesa's had an override for years, and at best districts evaluate the need for new texts every seven years (at least in Mesa, which, by the way, in English, hasn't chosen new high school texts in over 14 years).
As to Rich's malarky, he has much smoke but no fire. For example, he talks about test scores in 2007 compared to now, to somehow prove that less money doesn't mean lower achievement.
But what test scores? AIMS? SAT? ACT? National Merit finalists' scores? NAEP scores? And why 2007?
Rich has a lot of sound and fury, unfortunately too often signifying little.
If you send your children to Public Schools in Arizona and you don't vote and support Proposition 204, Shame on You!, it's you're children who will suffer your ignorance.
Similarly if you value education you will likewise look to support candidate who support education, you know who that is.
AZ WIllie-this proposition DOES require the state legislature to maintain the greater of this year's or last year's funding from the general fund. They worded it so that lawmakers could not lower current funding, AND the 1 cent sales tax would be added on top of that to restore funding we've lost in recent years (and it is designated for unfunded mandates by our legislators).
Rich-anytime new standards or new assessments are adopted, new text books have to be adopted and purchased to align with those. Since the state education department is the one who decides on new standards/new assessments/etc., I would suggest starting with them.
AZ Willie-get our legislators to fund education better? Ha ha ha ha!!!! I've been having a crappy couple of weeks, that really made my day! And please understand, I'm not trying to make fun of you, only the idea of actually trusting our current crop of legislators to increase funding for education. I've seen what has happened in recent years and where their priority lies (sometimes prison funding was increased during the recession, but not education. You pay it forward, people!)
Rich-scores in 2007 vs. now-do you realize how many times the format and content of the AIMS has changed? Almost every year. Teachers have to teach to the format as much as the content. It is not a reliable assessment by any means because the state has tweaked it almost every year it has been in existence. What if in your job you were evaluated on a moving target every year, and you never knew what you needed to do to get a good evaluation? Welcome to high-stakes testing in Arizona.
Rich-I invite you to enter some classrooms in the east valley and observe a teacher for a day in each one. I think you will realize there is a whole lot more to this ball of wax we call education than you realized.
Food for thought: as LED has pointed out, funding for education has been systemically cut by the legislature since 1987, except for a short stint when Prop 301 was passed BY THE VOTERS. Our Republican state lawmakers want to continue cutting taxes (which they have also done every year in some form or another for at least the last 15 years), which will only lead to more education cuts because there won't be tax revenue enough to support current levels of funding. You can't cut taxes so much that you have no more income, gee, let's tell our boss that we want him to pay us less and less. Eventually you don't have a house to live in or food to eat. It doesn't add up, and it doesn't make sense. The problem is our lawmakers won't be replaced easily, because the voters are too loyal to party and not loyal enough to doing the right thing, regardless of party affiliation.
And, yes, I am a conservative Republican typing this message.
Well, as usual, Rich pulled a number out of his, er, hat, and it backfires on him:
He chose to compare "scores" of 2007 to today, claiming that the "scores" are better today than in the earlier year even as less money's available.
Arizona ACT scores -- lower across the board today compare to five years ago.SAT scores -- continuing to improve as they have since 2000, though the pace of improvement slowed abruptly in . . . 2008. And has dropped in writing.NAEP scores -- hardly a difference, with some better and others worse.AIMS -- all over the board, with no clear improvement over the past five years, with some years better and some worse, some grades better and some worse.
Now, keep up your "broken windows" = skimming fiction.
In fact, you must be psychotic. It's clear. How do I know? I just do. Just like you "just know" that the money education gets is misspent.
So the Editorial Board of the EVT wants the voters to ........."throw more money after bad"....just like President Obama.
More of the hard-working (as opposed to the hardly-if-ever working or never working 47%, you know them by another name....Democrats and Independents)...tax-payer's money down the toilet for a failed education system and parks that the police officer, fireman, teacher and City Hall worker raises and Pension Benefits.
Failed Education Sytem....I can here Mike McCellan sputtering right now.....
BUT MIKE, LET'S LOOK A THE FACT AND NOTHING BUT THE FACTS. THE 2011 ARIZONA REPORT ON SCHOOLS RATING FROM THE .."A.I.M.S"...TESTS. THIS IS THE ......FEDERAL MEASUREMENT....THAT SCHOOLS EITHER HAVE MET OR HAVE NOT MET THE PROGRESS ON ARIZONA'S MANDATED ...."ARIZONA INSTRUMENT TO MEASURE STANDARDS = A.I.M.S". THIS MEASURES ARIZONA STUDENTS AGAINST STUDENTS IN ALL STATES.
BEFORE THE A.I.M.S. TESTS MEASURED ARIZONA STUDENTS AGAINST STUDENTS OF ALL THE OTHER STATES.....
GUESS WHAT, MIKE ?????
39% OF THE SCHOOLS IN THE MESA UNIFIED SCHOOL DISTRICT (YOU KNOW THE ONE YOU TAUGHT ENGLISH AT FOR SOOOOOOO MANY YEARS) = FAILED TO MEET YEARLY PROGRESS GOALS
39% OF THE STUDENTS FAILED TO MEET THE EDUCATIONAL GOALS THAT EVERY OTHER STUDENT IN AMERICA ARE TESTED FOR = JUST LESS THAT 1/2 OF THE STUDENTS = COULDN'T PASS THE READING TESTS, THE WRITING TEST, THE MATH OR THE SCIENCE TESTS = 39%
NOW THERE MAY BE SOME JUSTIFICATION FOR A FAILING SCORE OF 39% IF THIS WAS SOUTH CHICAGE, SOUTH-CENTRAL LOS ANGELES BUT MESA IS NOT A "GHETTO"...........THE POPULATION OF MESA IS 77% WHITE.
THERE ARE NOT EXCUSES FOR 39% OF MESA STUDENTS NOT BEING SMART ENOUGH TO GRADUATE FROM THE 8TH GRADE UNLESS THE...TEACHERS AREN'T TEACHING (THEY'RE MENTORING) OR THE STUDENTS ARE NOT LEARNING (THEY ARE ON SPICE OR TEXTING, TWEETING OR WHATEVER) OR THE PARENTS DON'T CARE..........OR ALL THREE SCENARIOS COMBINED.
SO NOW THE MESA SCHOOL DISTRICT WANTS .....1/4 OF A BILLION DOLLARS TO THROW AT THIS PROBLEM...........$230,000,000.00...OF STRANGER'S HARD EARN MONEY GOING TO A FAILED EDUCATION SYSTEM.........NO WAY....NO HOW.....NO MORE WASTED MONEY !!!
Sputter, sputter, sputter . . .
AIMS isn't a "federal measurement," Leon. It's an Arizona-created test, and it can't compare Arizona students to others, given that it's only used in AZ.
You're confusing AIMS with the Yearly Progress by the Feds, which is so flawed that even the Bush Administration (who put it into effect) began to grant waivers to states, allowing them to ignore the standard.
What you want to look at is the NAEP scores, which ARE (you like caps, after all) national and can compare groups between states -- specifically 4th, 8th and 12 graders. And it only looks at math and reading.
Currently, it's the only national score, and the tests are given to only a few students in each state, from which NAEP extrapolates their stats.
However, with the Common Core standards adopted by AZ and 45 other states, we will get a yearly comparison across grade levels, but that's two years away.
In the meantime, we have to make do with the NAEP, which shows this about AZ:
Depending on the grade, we're in the middle of the pack on everything except the level of kids in the highest percentile of scores. There were 40th.
But as to the money you are "sputtering" about: You realize that the money has to pay for, in large part, the equipment needed for the Common Core standards that your Republican governor, your Republican superintendent of public instruction, and your Republican legislature have mandated.
"THOSE WHO CAN DO....THOSE WHO CAN'T = TEACH"
AS USUAL THIS "DOER" HAS TO SHOW THE "TEACH" PERSON WHERE TO FIND THE INFORMATION THAT I FOUND.
TURN ON COMPUTERSINE INONCE YAHOO COME UP ON THE SCREEN, TYPE INTO THE "SEARCH" BOX....AZCENTRAL.COM.ONCE YOU ARE IN....AZCENTRAL.COM...TYPE IN "AYP 2011 RESULTS" IN IT'S "SEARCH" BOX.
WHEN THE AYP 2011 RESULT PAGE IS DISPLAYED, TYPE IN "MESA UNIFIED SCHOOL DISTRICT" AND A LISTING OF THE SCHOOLS WILL APPEAR ALPHABETICALLY AND ON THE RIGHT HAND COLUMN WHEATHER THEY "MET" OR "DID NOT MEET".
ADEQUATE YEARLY PROGRESS IS A FEDERAL MEASUREMENT THAT SCHOOLS EITHER MEET OR CAN'T MEET BASED ON STATE MANDATED "AIMS" TESTS.
Q.E.D. = QUOD ERAT DEMONSTRATUM
Well, Leon, those who can, do; those who can't, teach; and those who can't teach WRITE IN ALL CAPS AND GET IT CONSISTENTLY WRONG.
Again, if you actually read what AYP is, you'll find that it measures not just (in Arizona's case) AIMS scores, but also attendance, test participation, and graduation rates.
All three are in the mix of AYP ratings, not just AIMS.
And as you might know -- if you read, that is -- you'd find that one of the reasons AYP has been waived in so many states is that if, for example, Tempe Union High School District didn't have enough of their special ed students tested in a particular year, the district would not meet AYP for that year. So, if the district was supposed to have at least 702 special ed kids take the tests and only 701 did, for that year, the district would not make its AYP goal, regardless of the scores.
Folks, it seems that President Obama isn't the only one who can come up with a thousand excuses.
Obama finally, finally admitted (after the New York Times and the Washington Post wrote story after story after story) that the Attack on the Benghazi Consulate and the murder of the first American Ambassador in decades and decades was not caused by some anti-Islam B-movie that nobody even saw but was caused by ...al-Queda...which it seems America help arm with these RPG's (rocket propelled grenades) and full automatic assault rifles when the Obama Administration was supplying the anti-Ghadafi Rebels.
Remember the first of the year when Obama again was giving excuse after excuses after excuse when the ...."Fast and Furious" Program that was run by Obama's Dept. of Justice and Obama's Dept. of Homeland "In-Security".....started coming unraveled after the murder of an American Border Patrol agent.
OUR SCHOOL SYSTEM IS BROKEN FROM WITH-IN....TEACHERS THAT DON'T TEACH...SCHOOL ADMINISTRATORS WHO GET $200,000.00 PER YEAR RETIREMENT CHECKS....ILLEGAL ALIEN CHILDREN GETTING FREE BREAKFASTS, FREE LUNCHES, EXTRA ENGLISH AS A SECOND LANGUAGE TEACHERS FROM KINDERGARTEN TO THE 12TH GRADE (AND THEY STILL AREN'T ENGLISH PROFICIENT AFTER 12 YEARS...12 YEARS).
EVERY HARD-WORKING, TAX-PAYING FAMILY IN AMERICA HAS HAD TO CUT-BACK AND TAKE CONTROL OF THEIR SPENDING = ISN'T IT TIME THAT OUR ....SCHOOL DISTRICTS DID THE SAME.
NO MORE OVER-RIDES....NO MORE SALES TAXES...NO MORE BONDS...NO MORE .........THROWING HARD-WORKING TAXPAYER'S DOLLARS DOWN THE FAILED EDUCATION SYSTEM TOILET.
After the latest bill failed to pass through the Senate, do you feel there will be any more attempts at mandating more background checks for gun purchases?
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