Just like with the Fast and Furious cover up, this administration is playing the classic Middle East, Libyan political tactic of stalling with rhetoric instead of producing the records (that are readily available) of what happened. Obama said he gave the order “to do whatever needed to be done to protect our people.”
When a president gives an order to the military, the CIA and FBI, as commander in chief, to act, there is a record of that order. Let’s see it! He made it public information when he announced it. His order is not classified information.
The subsequent orders for execution and the following commands by the military, CIA and FBI to execute the president’s direct order are also readily available. They are on the record. Let’s see them. If these records are considered classified, produce them immediately to the congressional intelligence committees.
As long as we’re at it, produce the records of the person or persons that reportedly countermanded the president’s order and told the military, CIA and FBI to “stand down.” Those orders were also widely reported, therefore they’re not classified. Produce the records for the person that gave the command to relieve General Ham when he said “screw it” — he had a rapid response team ready and could have been there within an hour and was sending them to help save those Americans fighting for their lives and to protect our embassy. Who relieved him of command? Who reinstated him a few days later? These reported facts prove we have personnel very high in our national security apparatus that have not only disobeyed orders but have followed orders opposite to those they were given by the president — assuming the order to do everything to protect our people was really given.
I’ll bet more of our tax money has been spent to keep the Fast and Furious records secret than the $2 million that has been spent to keep the president’s personal records secret. How much will be spent to keep Americans from seeing the records in the Benghazi slaughter? Enough stalling and rhetoric; show the American people the actual records instead of trying to politically spin what happened. Four brave Americans were murdered as, admittedly, our White House watched in real time. We, and more importantly their families, deserve the truth that only the records will reveal and not meaningless rhetoric from professional political spin artists.
Bill Sandry
MESA
bubba posted at 10:32 am on Sat, Dec 22, 2012.
VofReason:...In an explosive book entitled Against All Enemies by Bush's former counterterrorism director, Richard A. Clarke, the author recounts life inside the Bush Administration in the days immediately following the 9/11 attacks:
"The president in a very intimidating way left us, me and my staff, with the clear indication that he wanted us to come back with the word there was an Iraqi hand behind 9/11 because they had been planning to do something about Iraq from before the time they came into office. I think they had a plan from day one they wanted to do something about Iraq. While the World Trade Center was still smoldering, while they were still digging bodies out, people in the White House were thinking: 'Ah! This gives us the opportunity we have been looking for to go after Iraq.'"
VofReason posted at 12:38 pm on Fri, Dec 21, 2012.
I am always surprised when regular citizen assert that they understand geopolitics and the intent of politicians far better than intelligance agencies, Congress, the President etc etc. I mean really? Because you go to Moveon.com and follow a few links, you believe you have access to information that is superior to intelligance. So the assertion here is that Powell who was a high ranking militry General prior got a wisper in his ear from then President Bush and risking his career and forward respect made no attempt to verify anything. Then went before the UN and told them that the US was intent on stopping it militarily? This is fantastic. What else do you believe?Conversely, Rice (the bad Rice) went and espoused a story that no one in intelligance or otherwise can backup and told it as truth the the American people. And these scenarios are the same. Hmmm.
Arizona Willie posted at 9:10 am on Thu, Dec 20, 2012.
Rice only repeated the info given her by the CIA, just as Powell only repeated the lies told him by the Bush regime.
The CIA was trying to keep a lid on their attempts to meet out justice to the perpetrators.
It is far far easier to capture some terrorists sitting in a cafe laughing at the stupid Americans who think a film caused the attack and who don't seem to have a clue who did it, than it is to capture terrorists who know you know who did it and that you are coming after them.
They just go into hiding like Osama Bin Lauden did.
So who is stoopid? The CIA for trying to keep a lid on what they know so they can capture the terrorists or the people screaming for Rice's head?
It isn't the CIA.
bubba posted at 9:04 am on Thu, Dec 20, 2012.
Slab:...Here's an article explaining the history of the petro-dollar and it's relation to the Iraqi war. It's kinda lengthy and written in 4 parts, but a real informative read. Part 3 deals with the Iraqi war, but the whole article is worth reading. Please check it out and let me know what you think..... http://ftmdaily.com/preparing-for-the-collapse-of-the-petrodollar-system/
bubba posted at 9:36 pm on Wed, Dec 19, 2012.
The fiasco in Iraq had nothing to do with WMD's or bringing Democracy to Iraqis. It was Sadam Hussein's plan to sell oil without involving the monetary exchange to "petro- dollars".....Ref....:.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nixon_Shock....
bubba posted at 9:29 pm on Wed, Dec 19, 2012.
slab: You forgot the house. For a complete count refer to:..............http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_Resolution ...The Dems. in congress that voted for the invasion aren't off the hook. They didn't do their due diligence either. But it was Bush that sold this lie.
Slabside posted at 7:53 pm on Wed, Dec 19, 2012.
@ bubba, "Bush invades Iraq on faulty information of WMD's that the whole world (with the exception of Great Britain) knows is false."
Oh puleeeeze!
Yes to Disarming Iraq
29 Democrats joined 48 Republicans to pass a Senate resolution on October 11 authorizing President Bush to use military force, if necessary, to disarm Iraq:
Max Baucus (Mont.)
Evan Bayh (Ind.)
Joe Biden (Del.)
John Breaux (La.)
Maria Cantwell (Wash.)
Jean Carnahan (Mo.)
Tom Carper (Del.)
Max Cleland (Ga.)
Hillary Clinton (N.Y.)
Tom Daschle (S.D.)
Christopher Dodd (Conn.)
Byron Dorgan (N.D.)
John Edwards (N.C.)
Dianne Feinstein (Calif.)
Tom Harkin (Iowa)
Fritz Hollings (S.C.)
Tim Johnson (S.D.)
John Kerry (Mass.)
Herb Kohl (Wis.)
Mary Landrieu (La.)
Joe Lieberman (Conn.)
Blanche Lincoln (Ark.)
Zell Miller (Ga.)
Ben Nelson (Neb.)
Bill Nelson (Fla.)
Harry Reid (Nev.)
John Rockefeller (W.Va.)
Charles Schumer (N.Y.)
Bob Torricelli (N.J.)
Big Surprise to many here that Hillary is on the list, huh? These are some of the men and women that helped give Bush the ok. Yet it's Bush's fault? Takes more than just the President. Think about it!
bubba posted at 6:52 pm on Wed, Dec 19, 2012.
I see the difference. Obama and Rice mistakenly claim Libyan Embassy attack that killed 4 on protests over a film::::[U.S. death toll 4]........Bush was forewarned about 9-11 did nothing:::::[U.S. death toll 2,996].......Bush invades Iraq on faulty information of WMD's that the whole world (with the exception of Great Britain) knows is false. [U S death toll 4,409]........Yeah I see the difference. Hold Obama responsible for misdiagnosing the cause 4 U. S. deaths, and give good old Dubya a pass on 7,413 U.S. deaths. I've come to learn that you can't reason with the Bush apologists.
Accuracy posted at 5:35 pm on Wed, Dec 19, 2012.
“Records not rhetoric”
Records and review of the Benghazi attack on the U.S. Consulate in Libya:
∙ “Grossly inadequate” security arrangements at an American diplomatic compound in Benghazi, Libya, and and leadership failures.
∙ Woefully inadequate security and over-dependence on Libyan militias for the tragedy.
∙ State Department officials in Washington denied repeated requests for more security, stopping short of singling out individuals.
∙ Despite initial reports by the Obama administration, no protest took place outside the compound before the attack and that it was, in fact, a terrorist attack.
∙ Obama administration officials blamed protests over an anti-Islam film. U.N. Ambassador Susan Rice made the same claims in appearances on several TV talk shows in the days following the attack.
VofReason posted at 1:57 pm on Wed, Dec 19, 2012.
Yes Rice (the good Rice) and Powell said there were WMDs in Iraq and so did have of our allies intelligence agencies. So that is what they reported. It wasn't becuase President Bush read tea leaves and came up with it. Now again, to contrast, the Obama Administration knew that it had nothing to do with a video and was not a calm protest that turned deadly violent. Yet, they came out on TV and in multiple forums and told us all that that is what happened. Not that anyone with any understanding of what Libya is thought that it wasn't likely terrorist and for the explicit purpose of killing Americans. Which is exacly what it was. See the difference?
Slabside posted at 11:11 am on Wed, Dec 19, 2012.
Yes, there were 12 embassy attacks during Bush's tenure resulting in 53 deaths and 90 injuries. Yet not once did Bush try to deflect the blame of these attacks.
When the story about the embassy attack broke, Obama tried to cover up the fact it was a planned and coordinated terrorist attack that they knew about from the beginning and blame it on some campy anti-Islam film that was floating about.
bubba posted at 4:56 pm on Tue, Dec 18, 2012.
VofReason...My comment wasn't in reply to yours, it was Chatmandus: '"Spin it anyway your want. But Obama lied and our people died."
bubba posted at 4:40 pm on Tue, Dec 18, 2012.
VofReason....Hate to bring up the Bush era again, but didn't Condolesa Rice make the claim of WMD's she and Colin Powell, among others, knew were lies that led us into Iraq? A lot more deaths resulted there than in Benghazi. See the hypocrisy between these two? I know, I know, Bush isn't the President anymore, but saying that is like saying Hitler's been dead for 67 years, when is the holocaust going to stop being his fault?
bubba posted at 4:28 pm on Tue, Dec 18, 2012.
Arizona Willie ...Let's give him the chance. I don't agree or disagree with everything anybody may opine to, but we ought to see if we could do a better job than congress on discussing issues.
Arizona Willie posted at 4:03 pm on Tue, Dec 18, 2012.
bubba, Slabside was challenged as to why the righties didn't complain about the Embassy Attacks during the Bush administration but scream bloody murder about this attack.
He fails to address the challenge and just keep spewing about Operation Wide Reiver and Fast and Furious.
He runs and ducks and hides.
typical right winger
bubba posted at 3:33 pm on Tue, Dec 18, 2012.
Obama's decision to follow Wide Receiver with Fast and Furious was a HUGE blunder on his part, given the failure Wide receiver was. I don't let him off the hook for that. But the failure to stop 410 firearms from getting into the hands of Mexican drug cartels, that undoubtedly killed many Mexican police and drug agents doesn't give Bush a free pass either, whether it was yesterday or over 4 years ago. I just don't see how anybody could hold Obama's feet to the fire and let Bush slide. That's what smacks of hypocrisy.
VofReason posted at 3:25 pm on Tue, Dec 18, 2012.
Wow, no crazy liberals came out on National TV claiming that the building couldn't have blown up becuase the airplanes hit them and that explosives must have been involved. Boy I must have dreamed this up? You may want to re read my post, I didn't claim that the Obama Administration lied and caused the deaths, I said they lied afterward when they knew what they were saying was a lie. If they are willing to lie to you on something as important as a diplomats death, what else may they lie to you about? And then try give the puppet that went out and lied for you a promotion? That is how brash this Chicago stlye politician and his administration are, even though they are cuaght in a lie, they want to shove it in your face for good measure.
Slabside posted at 2:52 pm on Tue, Dec 18, 2012.
First and foremost bubba BUSH IS NOT THE PRESIDENT AND HAS NOT BEEN FOR OVER 4 YEARS!
That said, Wide Receiver did not result in the death of a U.S. Border Patrol agent or an Immigrations and Customs Enforcement (ICE) officer. Fast and Furious did. The guns that killed Border Patrol agent Brian Terry and ICE officer Jamie Zapata were traced back to straw purchasers related to Fast and Furious. Zapata’s family filed a wrongful death suit against the U.S. Justice Department .
Wide Receiver was shut down in 2007 shortly after it was clear the program was a failure. This was before Obama was even in office and nearly two years before Fast and Furious began.
Fast and Furious wasn’t shut down until late 2010 after the deaths of hundreds of Mexicans, a border agent and an ICE officer.
Big difference between the two my bro!
bubba posted at 2:31 pm on Tue, Dec 18, 2012.
Embassies not emassies. Dang this no edit feature!!!
bubba posted at 2:28 pm on Tue, Dec 18, 2012.
So Slab, my man, now that we've got that out of the way would you like to reply on the attacks on embassies and consulates under the Bush adm., or the failures of Operation Wide Receiver, or the Republican refusal to properly fund security for emassies?
bubba posted at 2:22 pm on Tue, Dec 18, 2012.
Slabby.......I've never claimed you've ever made any racist statements. Racism in this country is a serious problem and I believe playing the race card at the drop of a hat is like the little boy that cries wolf. I've never acussed anybody of being racist. Read any of my comments, you'll never see it. My assumption of you not being black is simple deductive reasoning, nothing to do with racism. But never let it be said the right wingers don't have a sense of humor. Your claim of being black gave me the best laugh I've had in a week.
Slabside posted at 1:26 pm on Tue, Dec 18, 2012.
@ bubba, " After reading your posts here and in the Az. Rep. your claim of being African-American made me laugh."
Stupid is as stupid does bubba.
Please feel free to show any of my posts that display bigotry in any way, shape or form the way downtownresident does.
I'll wait.
bubba posted at 12:38 pm on Tue, Dec 18, 2012.
Slabside...After reading your posts here and in the Az. Rep. your claim of being African-American made me laugh. The anonimity of the internet allows for some crazy claims, but yours takes the cake.
bubba posted at 12:31 pm on Tue, Dec 18, 2012.
More right wing hypocrisy on Fast and Furious vs. Operation Wide Receiver:
The suspicious sale of AR-15s led to Operation Wide Receiver.The first known ATF "gunwalking" operation to Mexican drug cartels, named Operation Wide Receiver, began in early 2006 and ran into late 2007. Licensed dealer Mike Detty of Mad Dawg Global informed the ATF of a suspicious gun purchase that took place in February 2006 in Tucson, Arizona. In March he was hired as a confidential informant working with the ATF's Tucson office, part of their Phoenix, Arizona field division.
With the use of surveillance equipment, ATF agents monitored additional sales by Detty to straw purchasers. With assurance from ATF "that Mexican officials would be conducting surveillance or interdictions when guns got to the other side of the border", Detty would sell a total of about 450 guns during the operation. These included AR-15s, semi-automatic AK-pattern rifles, and Colt .38s. The majority of the guns were eventually lost as they moved into Mexico.
As the later DOJ OIG Report documented, under Wide Receiver coordination of ATF Tucson with the ATF Mexico City Office (MCO) and with Mexican law enforcement had been haphazard. Discussions of getting tracking devices from Raytheon were not followed up. ATF field agents and the cooperating gun dealer had been told by ATF supervisors that the guns were being interdicted before they could reach Mexico, but only 64 of the 474 guns had actually been seized. The kingpin sought by walking the guns, Israel Egurrola-Leon, turned out to be the target of a larger drug case Operation Iron River run by OCDETF. After Operation Wide Receiver was ended, several attorneys at the Phoenix USAO who reviewed the Wide Receiver cases for prosecution found the cases had been so poorly managed that they were reluctant to bring any of them to trial. Nobody kows the death toll these 410 lost guns caused, but I'll bet they were the end of many human lives. Still no condemnation from the right on this botched gun walking fiasco.
bubba posted at 12:06 pm on Tue, Dec 18, 2012.
chatmandu002.. Explain how Obama lied and it CAUSED the death of four Americans. Who's really responsible for the deaths in Benghasi:..... House Republicans cut the administration’s request for embassy security funding by $128 million in fiscal 2011 and $331 million in fiscal 2012....Last year, Secretary of State Hillary Clinton warned that Republicans’ proposed cuts to her department would be “detrimental to America’s national security”
Slabside posted at 11:05 am on Tue, Dec 18, 2012.
Hypocrisy = downtownresident's sole basis for supporting Obama and ridiculing the right is because of Obama's skin color. Downtownresident has never met me...if he had, he MIGHT have enough of an IQ to notice I too am black.
Slabside posted at 10:59 am on Tue, Dec 18, 2012.
Hypocrisy = The left shrieking for gun control when the the poster child of socialism residing in the White House gives them to Mexican drug runners to murder Americans with.
chatmandu002 posted at 10:58 am on Tue, Dec 18, 2012.
Spin it anyway your want. But Obama lied and our people died.
bubba posted at 5:32 am on Tue, Dec 18, 2012.
rhet·o·ric/ˈrɛt ər ɪk/ Show Spelled [ret-er-ik] Show IPA
noun
1. (in writing or speech) the undue use of exaggeration or display; bombast.
2. the art of using speech to persuade, influence, or please; oratory
3. excessive use of ornamentation and contrivance in spoken or written discourse; bombast
4. speech or discourse that pretends to significance but lacks true meaning:
A perfect example of the use of this word to explain the nonsensical responses of the right wingers to the Benghasi attack, and the hypocrisy they display.
bubba posted at 7:10 pm on Mon, Dec 17, 2012.
Has anyone noticed nobody from the right has adressed why they can't explain their hypocrisy when you compare their outrage on Benghazi to the free ride they give the previous administration?
Slabside posted at 5:22 pm on Mon, Dec 17, 2012.
Has anyone noticed that downtownresident plays the "race" card whenever anyone holds the POTUS's feet to the fire? Has anyone noticed that liberals give him a free pass whenever he does it?
truth posted at 3:12 pm on Mon, Dec 17, 2012.
Has anyone noticed that when you give facts to Republicans the stick their head in their hole and revert to name calling showing their stupity.
bubba posted at 2:40 pm on Mon, Dec 17, 2012.
VofReason ...Nobody said anything about Bush having something to do with blowing up the Twin Towers. The reference to Sept. 11, 2001 was that the Bush Adm. was forewarned about this attack and were even advised the attack would use commercial aircraft, and nothing was done. Sill the conservative leaning folks have yet to raise an eyebrow to any of this, or the attacks on embassies and consulates during Bush's terms. Do you see the hypocrisy of condeming Obama for the attack on Benghazi, while ignoring these?
VofReason posted at 1:30 pm on Mon, Dec 17, 2012.
Yes, "get over it bro". Wonder if the families of those who died can get over it too? Is it that they too are perhaps just being obstinate in wanting to know why their family members died. I cannot say enough that liberalism is a mental disorder. We may all look back at the activities of September 11th and the foolish people who believed and likely still belive that President Bush had something to do with blowing up the buildings. Yet somehow, now, when people closely associated with the process (ala Gen Petraeus) admits that the information let out from the administration and Rice was wrong when they knew the right information. Not becuase they are black, but becuase they lied to our face and have yet to set the record straight.
downtownresident posted at 12:27 pm on Mon, Dec 17, 2012.
Bill,
Yes, there is a black man in the White House.
Your's and other's blind hatred of blacks has caused more damage to this administration than any terriorist attacks.
And Susan Rice would have made a great choice for Sec. of State.
Oh, that's right she's black. And does she have a valid birth certificate?
Arizona Willie posted at 9:14 am on Mon, Dec 17, 2012.
bubba, often in the papers there is a puzzle where they have a cartoonish picture of a roomful of items and you are supposed to pick the things that don't belong there.
If you wish to understand the Republicans outrage over this issue just replace one of those pictures with a picture of Bohner and Obama together.
See any difference between the two people?
That's why they think he doesn't belong there and is the source of their outrage.
Not only that -- he has beaten them in two elections running and they are screaming mad.
bubba posted at 6:49 am on Mon, Dec 17, 2012.
Bill, Were yoiu asking for records on the embassy attacks during Bush's terms?:.. Where was all that concern for our men and women serving in embassies and consulates across the globe when all the other attacks and killings occurred?
Like in 2002 when the US Consulate in the Karachi, Pakistan, was attacked and 10 were killed?
Or in 2004 when the US embassy in Uzbekistan was attacked and two were killed and another nine injured?
How about in 2004, when the US Consulate in Saudi Arabia was stormed and 8 lost their lives?
There is more: In 2006, armed men attacked the US Embassy in Syria and one was murdered.
Then in 2007 a grenade was thrown at the US Embassy in Athens.
In 2008, the US Embassy in Serbia was set on fire.
In 2008, bombings in the US Embassy in Yemen killed 10.
Notice the dates, all before the Obama administration.
How about the biggest, most catastrophic attack and murder of Americans? As a New Yorker, Sept. 11, 2001, is indelibly imprinted on my psyche and I’m sure on the rest of the country. 3,000 perished in the most brutal act of terror in our recent history—all under a Republican administration. George W. Bush and his team had nine warnings that al-Qaida would attack within the United States, but they did absolutely nothing. No one in that administration’s head rolled for that stunning incompetence.
Dale Whiting posted at 10:57 pm on Sun, Dec 16, 2012.
Bill,
Are you and Senator McCain still hung up over Bengazi? Get over it, bro!