As a 20-year veteran public school teacher, all in Title I schools, I can’t claim to be an expert, just someone who has been in the trenches for a long time. I am deeply concerned with John Huppenthal’s plan to model educational reform after Florida’s reform. How is labeling schools A-F vastly different than labeling them Excelling, Performing, Failing, etc.? Same poor system, just different labels.
Schools, children and teachers are already being labeled on single test scores — which is also highly inappropriate. Should we label every businessman/business on a single bad business deal and then take away their business? Should we label a dentist as failing because a patient gets a cavity? Probably not.
So why label schools, teachers and children on a single test score? I could write a whole different letter on why this is not good practice. Effective teaching practice is more than a single test score. A better, more effective way to evaluate teachers and teaching is the TAP-Teacher model (my former school district has already implemented this model). I saw nothing in the Florida model that brings in parents or district administrators, other than principals, into this equation. All factors need to be evaluated before true reform can happen. Make the playing field level for all schools and then reform can happen.
Kristine Tolman, Mesa
Dale Whiting posted at 8:32 am on Thu, Jun 23, 2011.
So mesateacher,
What subjects did you teach? I know two retired teachers and they both agree with me. One retired from Mesa.
And what do you think about that circulating curriculum in math? You know, teach a little algebra, then a little trig, then a little geometry, then start all over again next year. It drove both me and my three kids nuts. And I know a charter school principle and a charter school teacher. They have parents waiting on the curb to register each fall. And then their kids finished the K-8 Charter School curriculum and went to Mesa High, none of these kids reported having problems. Sure, some charters are poor. But the long established ones, the ones parents line up for in the fall, do a much much better job than do the public schools. Chances are you never had anyone drop out of the good charters and go back to your school.
Where did you teach?
sockratties posted at 7:32 am on Thu, Jun 23, 2011.
The roll of the teacher cannot be all things to all students. The purpose of testing is to evaluate what students can do. Knowledge must be tested in some standardized way. Written tests are useful to check writing, reading composition, history and math abilities. Performance tests check music, sports, or other task related subjects. Students should be expected to perform at some acceptable level if they are to move to the next level. Excellence in one area should not be a pass in another. An athlete should have to perform acceptably in the academic arena as so should the musician. The computer “geek” must meet some minimum athletic level and be able to pass a history test. The purpose of K-12 education is not to make students happy, it is to make them minimally functional. After high school they can make their own future, but I want to see an acceptable return on the educational tax dollar. The system takes it from me, the teachers make a living out of it, a massive administration is supported by it. The product should be educated children or I am being defrauded regardless of the excuses.
Teachers should be held accountable for their performance. My test has always included the concept that if a few students fail it’s the students’ fault. If most students fail, it’s the teachers’ fault. It may be the system or the method or political meddling but it’s not the students fault; too many of them are failing.
Some kids will never be great in English, history, math or other “book learning.” We should have vocational options that provide trade skills such as auto shop, air conditioning, retail sales, equipment operation, health care assistants and such, while ensuring that students can read a basic contract, manage household finances and read and write at adequate levels to do so. Performance and academic tests should verify competence. Not everyone will be a college graduate but good plumbers, auto technicians, cosmetologists and apprentice tradesmen are always in demand.
Troubled and broken homes, migrant families, poverty and other social problems do effect the learning environment but teachers are not hired to solve community social problems. There are organizations that are supposed to be handling that, including problems like truancy. The curriculum should dictate what is taught, at what level, and the pass or fail criteria should be clearly identifiable. The success of the students, related to those criteria, attests to the competence of the teacher who, given necessary resources, should be held accountable.
concernedcitizen posted at 6:22 pm on Wed, Jun 22, 2011.
Someone "riddle me this":
If the problem is with curriculum developers and with administrators who don't have the gumption to hold back a student because of poor performance (there also is a bunch of paperwork that I believe takes 3-5 months to complete, so you have to almost start the process by January or you can't hold someone back), how do we fix it? How do we get curriculum developers who hold the standards for the classes how they should be, instead of everyone having "low, medium and high-achieving" students in every class?
As far as evaluating the arts and PE, our district is already fairly far ahead in this area. It really isn't difficult if you take the time as a teacher to master plan your entire year/curriculum. That is what I do. The band teachers in our district, for example, use a software program that evaluates students on notes and rhythms (pretty slick actually), and the teachers can listen to the recordings of their playing tests to listen for tone, articulation, etc. It also works with orchestra and choir students. PE uses rubrics a lot for the expectations they have with their warmup time, participation, sports time, etc. And anyone and everyone can, and is, using written and/or computerized tests as a pre- and post-test to show progress and growth with each student. It is more work, but it can be done.
I also agree about charter schools, but I think it is the same with public schools. Some are very hard to get into because they have tons of success, some just plain stink at getting the job done. I think again it all goes back to administration and curriculum as a couple people have mentioned. Fix that, and you will have fixed much of today's education problems.
Unfortunately, many administrators are afraid to hold students back because parents get into the high-and-mighty "not my child" syndrome, instead of accepting that little Johnny really does need to be held back if he is to do anything productive in society as an adult. Heaven-forbid that we spare a little humiliation in order that they can "feel good" about themselves in the moment...what most people don't realize is that if they don't learn it now by putting in the hard work, they will never have true self-esteem because they will know deep-down they never accomplished what they could have.
Anyways, enough of my soap box. :)
Accuracy posted at 4:52 pm on Wed, Jun 22, 2011.
I heard this humorous story.
There were some students in a huddle in the back of the class room while their teacher was sitting up front.
The teacher ran back to the students that were kneeling, and said "what are you doing"?? The students said that they were shooting dice.
The teacher then said "oh for a while I thought you were praying".
Leon Ceniceros posted at 3:13 pm on Wed, Jun 22, 2011.
Physical Education is graded on participation and the student learning the fundementals of a sport.......how to dribble, how to pitch, how to catch, how to tackle, how to hurdle...etc.
Music is graded on learning to read notes, learning to play an instrument (for me it was a recorder and it took...hoursssssssssssssssssssssssssssss.
Art again is fundementals...how to identify the different great artists, what style or genre the artist painted in, what are the primary colors, the secondary colors, what colors do you get when you mix colors.
As for "socially graduating" a student from one grade or one subject to a higher one. That was never, ever the case when I was going to school. That came about in the 1960's when....TEACHING WENT FROM BEING A GROUP-ORIENTED SITUATION TO AND ...INDIVIDUAL-ORIENTED SITUATION.
Johnny comes from a broken home= pass him even if Johnny doesn't know squat.
Johnny comes from an abusive home = pass him even if Johnny doesn't know squat.
Johnny comes from a low-income home = pass him even if Johnny doesn't know squat.
Johnny comes from a Non-White Ethnic Group = pass him even if Johnny doesn't know squat.
Since the 1960's, the..."TEACHING PROFESSION"...has become.... a magnet.... for every Left-Wing Liberal, Anti-America, Anti-Establishment, Anti-Whitey, Anti-Capitalism, Anti-God, Anti-Gun Owners, Anti-Business, Anti-Republican, Anti-Authority.....college student........that hasn't gone into ....JOURNALISM.....[wink]
mesateacher posted at 1:36 pm on Wed, Jun 22, 2011.
Dale: your comment that the dummy teachers are left behind is impossibly rude, arrogant, mis-informed and WRONG. I taught in the east valley for 30 years, and let me tell you something that you need to know: most charter schools are terrible, most charter school teachers are too stupid to get hired in a district. You have no idea how many times student would transfer to my high school from one of several local charter schools with high grades and find themselves completely in over their heads. They were way behind the public school students, they had terrible study habits. Of course, when I gave them the low grades they deserved, it was always my fault. That's what they, their parents, and people like you think. Now, before you go ballistic, there are some fine charter schools that do a great job, have highly trained and skilled teachers. They're the minority, sorry to say.
There are so many things wrong with schools today that it's hard to know where to begin, but you hint at one: the curriculum is a disaster. The single biggest problem is that we have gotten away from the idea of prerequisites - you don't move on until you master the prior, required skills. But not so in Mesa or Gilbert anymore. A kid who gets a D or F in Algebra is passed into Geometry anyway -- heck, that teacher can spiral the curriculum and catch them up. Wait till they get to calculus with so many deficits. This is NOT the fault of teachers: it's the fault of administrators, curriculum specialists (who are usually dopes), and parents who can't believe their kid isn't a genius.
And Leon: you're wrong about testing being the way to measure all teachers. Really? That's easy if the teacher teaches math, science, English, etc. But to date, no one has demonstrated how this will be applied in a fair, accurate way to teachers who teach PE, music, art and other more subjective classes. Since you're so brilliant and know the problems and the fixes, tell me, in detail, how you measure those teachers so that teachers of harder subjects are penalized in some way.
concernedcitizen posted at 11:21 am on Wed, Jun 22, 2011.
Leon, I appreciate your passion for what you believe. I think there is some truth to what you say, however I do differ on the majority of it. What your post fails to recognize is how many children come from troubled homes. If teachers don't interact with students and be there mentors, no one at home will be, and they will fail on EVERY test, UNLESS a caring adult in their life (most of the time the teacher) takes that extra time and effort. If parents in general stepped up even a little on this, you would see MUCH more success in schools. By the way, I am an educator, and I am not evaluated on how I interact with my students. I am evaluated on how many students are actively learning in my classroom, and, with the law that was just passed in Arizona, 33%-50% of my evaluation is now based on showing quantitative progress for each student in my classroom. I'm sorry your opinion of teachers is so poor, I am also in the trenches along with the writer of this letter, and I believe she is right on with everything she says. Maybe if you took the time to ponder what she says in her last paragraph, you would recognize how foolish it is to base everything on one test, when the art of teaching is a complicated and beautiful thing when it is done correctly, and involves so many different factors. One last comment about tests-students today have more tests than ever, so much so that my colleagues fear they don't have enough time to get all the content taught before students are tested. Believe me when I say they have MORE than enough tests, so much so that it actually HINDERS the amount of quality teaching going on in the classroom, which hinders the effectiveness of teachers. Why don't students of today have a sound knowledge of all the subjects you listed? It is because they don't have enough time to learn it, only enough time to cram the knowledge in their head and then puke it out on a test, never to be remembered again. They don't have enough time to actively digest the information so that it transfers from short-term memory to long term. Leon, I invite you (if you have a bachelor's degree) to get your substitute certificate, go into several classrooms for a span of a month, and see how effective you can be at teaching with all the duties you would have. And, while subbing, you actually have your lesson plans done for you and don't have to attend any meetings or take care of any other paperwork, but at least you could imagine how much harder it is to get everything done as a teacher on top of being prepared for each and every day to teach effectively and well, while sweating the lack of quality time to get the students adequately prepared for their futures, much less the next test around the corner. Or, if that is too much, volunteer for a few teachers in the classroom a week at a time, follow them around to all their meetings, stay the extra hours they do, follow them home if/when they do grading at home, etc. There is the occasional lazy teacher in the classrooms, but the majority are dedicated, hard-working individuals who are trying to do everything you are saying within the limits they are given.
Dale Whiting posted at 11:18 am on Wed, Jun 22, 2011.
Leon,
May I add my thoughts to your excellent observations?
When I went to school, we studied in depth each subject for a full year. In math, we studied Algebra [an arabic word, I might add], then Geometry, then Trigonometry, then pre-calculus. But some bean brain educator got the idea that were many do not follow through with this four year cycle and do not get a "taste" of all four, we ought to each a little bit of each to all students each year in sort of a spiraling curriculum. Now no one really learns any of these subjects in depth. Like we all had to undergo a review at the end of each summer, at the return each year to the old discipline, we see the students having to go back and review. Unless of course your child is in a Charter School. We appear to have left the dummy teachers behind in the public schools. But No Child is left behind. All children are behind together!!!
I have yet to hear about any other country that teaches subjects in such an idiotic manner. No wonder Intel hires foreign engineers! Wouldn't you?
Leon Ceniceros posted at 10:08 am on Wed, Jun 22, 2011.
Arizona needs to stop grading teachers on how well they in "INTERACT" with students and grade them on how well they ...."TEACH" ...students.
When I was going to school back in the 1940's and 1950's....teachers were not ..'BUDDIES".....teachers were not...."MENTORS"....teachers did one thing and one thing only....................TEACHERS = TAUGHT.
Is the teacher there to lead you down Life's Path or is a teacher there to teach you the subject matter. How do we know that the teacher is teaching the subject matter = TESTS.
TESTS....are the only quantative way to....JUDGE.
If the students do well on tests it....PROVES....the teacher is ....EFFECTIVE.
If a so-called "Ghetto" High School (John C. Fremont) in South-Central Los Angeles can teach subjects like...ASTRONOMY, LATIN, CALCULUS, TRIGONOMETRY, PHYSICS, GEOLOGY, GEOMETRY, STATISTICS, BOTANY, BIOLOGY, CHEMISTRY, ALGEGBRA...........without computers....without videos....without Xerox copies.................WITH JUST A BOOK....AND A....BLACKBOARD AND A PIECE OF CHALK....AND A ZILLIONS.....TESTS (SPOT TESTS, FRIDAY TESTS, MONTHLY TESTS, 1/2 SEMESTER TESTS AND .....FINALS)...........why isn't Johnny and Jill learning...........10 times as much today as we learned back then.
Do the students of today even know about the Gauls, the Goths...the Barbarians..the Celts...the Normans...the Saxons...the Plantagents...the Holy Roman Empire...the Ottoman Empire....Copernicus...Aristotle...Pythagarus...Magellan..........Thomas Paine....Chief Joseph....the Trail of Tears....the Civilized Nations.............sadly the answer is.....NO.
Students back then "GRADED" homework and tests and term projects by....GRAMMER, CONTENT, OUTLINE STRUCTURE, SENTENCE STRUCTURE, SPELLING AND PUNCTUATION............AND ....PENMANSHIP.
BACK THEN ..................TEACHERS TAUGHT.....TEACHERS WERE TEACHERS.