I wonder if American voters are really paying attention to what the GOP candidates are proposing?
The nonpartisan ‘Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget’ has examined, as best they could since so many details have been conveniently left out, regarding exactly where and how deep the budget cuts will be, the most recent tax cut proposals offered up by these GOP candidates.
But simply looking at the deficits resulting from such drastic tax cuts shows a disastrous future ahead if any of them are elected.
They found that Gingrich’s plan would add $7 trillion to the nation’s debt over the coming nine years — almost doubling the deficit if no other changes were made!
Santorum’s plan would, on average, add $500 billion to the deficit every year and total $4.5 trillion in additional deficits over the same period!
They also noted that, “Romney’s proposal would add $250 billion to the deficit over nine years, though that estimate was generated before he unveiled a new tax proposal this week that could add considerably to the deficit!”
But then again, as Dick Cheney, “America’s favorite marksman,” proclaimed back in 2002, “Reagan proved deficits don’t matter!” Ok, you can stop laughing now!
Of course they matter, except when they are being run up by Republican presidents?
But when Democrats run deficits, the whole world is ready to collapse, right? Oh, the hypocrisy!
After all, what’s most important? Preserving benefits for those left behind by a flawed economic system, or making sure the wealthy and big corporations get to keep an extra 10 percent?
Rod Livdahl
Mesa
Masterrogue666 posted at 8:22 am on Thu, Mar 1, 2012.
I don't always agree with Rich. However, I do agree with what he's stated above.
Masterrogue666 posted at 8:15 am on Thu, Mar 1, 2012.
I see that Rodini still hasn't grown up enough to concentrate on the issues, and continues to attempt High School caliber insults. Perhaps one day he'll grow up.
In the meantime, please check for yourself HIS COMMENTS requesting links from others, but refuses to provide the same.
After all, IF he knows where said information is, how hard would it be to "cut and paste" a link. Sorry, Rod, but your actions seems to make you the "Master of Nonsense". That one was cute! [beam]
sdjtaz posted at 11:12 am on Wed, Feb 29, 2012.
Rich,
We will start with a simple question, which of my facts are phony? Where's your proof that they are phony? Or are you just blowing wind because I'm right and you know that you can't find anything to disprove what I've said.
Reality is that you don't have anything to back up your argument, so you are just trying to dismiss what I have shown without giving any evidence to prove your side.
You, like most of the sheep here, keep repeating all of the right wing talking points without taking the time to actually research the subject or providing any proof of what you say. I actually took time to do a little research on the matter. I guess asking you to do the same is too much.
Rich posted at 8:09 am on Wed, Feb 29, 2012.
FACTS:
Facts are when we quote things like meaningless numbers and percentages out of context and made up on the spot to make a point. Apparently this is what you mean by facts.
Reality is, Obama was hired to take care of it, he failed. All the King's numbers and all the King's phony statistics don't change that. There is a 72% chance the sky will be blue Thursday is the level you're talking here. "So considering that, am I going to blame Obama the plumber when he is forced to charge more to fix what was broken." After three years and triple the bill, any close to sane and reasonable person would. First year, with a majority in two houses and he didn't fix it? Second year, no recovery, worse. Now, more money spent to publicize it's getting better than to make it better. Bush wasn't much good, but Obama has been a major disaster, and numbers don't change reality, and facts are 93.2% made up for the argument. Just look around you, at reality.
sdjtaz posted at 7:06 am on Wed, Feb 29, 2012.
@ Slabside and Rich,
I gave you the facts. I noticed that nowhere in your response did either of you provide any facts as rebuttal for what I presented. Instead, you relied on a bunch of right wing talking points that disputes nothing. I guess that is because you don't actually have any facts to back up your assertions.
Slabside, Would you like some more FACTS. As I mentioned earlier, unemployment was 8.3 % in January. This was the sixth straight month that unemployment was going down. The fourth quarter GDP was estimated at 3% growth. Finally, this week, the Dow Jones broke the 13,000 mark for the first time since 2008. Much to your disappointment, all of these are indications that we are finally overcoming the recession that started during the Bush administration.
Rich, my response to Slabside was very specifically aimed since he was blaming Obama for several things (Solyndra, loans to Brazil, budget deficits, etc...) that actually started under the Bush administration. I again noticed that you didn't provide any evidence that what I said was wrong. As for your plumber analogy, let's tell it like it really is. We called in George Bush to repair a leak. Unfortunately, not only did Bush fail to repair the leak, his work meant that I had to also repair the toilet, the sink, the shower, and replace all of our pipes. So considering that, am I going to blame Obama the plumber when he is forced to charge more to fix what was broken. To reiterate, most of our current debt is going to pay for the programs, wars, and tax cuts that were passed by the Bush administration.
I suspect that since I'm the one giving you the facts and your best arguments are a bunch of right wing talking points with no evidence to back it up, I'm not the one drinking the Kool-aid.
Slabside posted at 6:49 pm on Tue, Feb 28, 2012.
Well said Rich.
Rich posted at 6:36 pm on Tue, Feb 28, 2012.
Oh c'mon, at this point 'Bush did it" is an absurdity. Actually, it's on George Washington makes as much sense. If it was messed up, Obama was hired to fix it. He didn't. If your plumbing springs a leak and your new plumber gives you a bill three times as high as his predecessor, and doesn't fix the leak, do you blame the previous plumber? sdtaz, some reasoning is just garbage on its face.
Slabside posted at 6:19 pm on Tue, Feb 28, 2012.
President Barack Obama said in February 2009 : "My Presidency Will Be 'A One-Term Proposition' If The Economy Doesn't Turn In 3 Years".
Well 3 years later the Economy is getting worse. This Obama's mess and Bush hasn't been in the WH for 3 years.
Drink more Kool-Aid sdjtaz.
sdjtaz posted at 4:55 pm on Tue, Feb 28, 2012.
Slabside, I see you live by the conservative philosophy of never letting the facts get in the way of a good story. Here are the facts:
Permanent 9% unemployment. In April 2008, unemployment was at 5.0%. By Jan. 2009 (Bush's last month in office), unemployment was at 7.8% (a rise of 2.8% in nine months. Under Obama, it peaked at 10% and in Jan. 2012 was at 8.3% (a rise of only 0.5% since taking office). All of this, along with high unemployment in the black community as well as stagnant growth are indications of the recession that started in the Bush administration.
Al Queda. Under Obama, Osama bin Ladin, Abu Hafs al-Shahri, Anwar al-Awaki, Atiyah Abd al-Rahman, Ilyas Kashmiri, Anwar al-Wa'ili, and several other al Queda leaders have been killed. As for your billions, this money was being sent to al Queda under Bush, Clinton, Bush 1, and Reagan. How do you propose that we stop people from giving money when they are in countries that we don't control.
Brazil oil development: The billions that you are talking about is a two billion dollar loan from the Ex-Im bank in 2009. Although the Ex-Im bank is a credit agency, which independent charter bank of the Federal government. At the time of the loan, every board member approving the loan to Brazil had been appointed to the Ex-Im board by President Bush.
Solyndra: The loan to Solyndra began in 2007 under the Bush administration. In October 2008, the Bush administration tried to rush the loan before leaving office. It comprised only 1.3% of the loans provided by the Department of Energy and has been the only loan in trouble (talk to a bank and check what their loan failure rate is). As for the political implications, the earliest and largest investor in Solyndra was Madrone Capitol Partners, whose primary owners is the Walton family (not the tv show, but the owners of Walmart) which has donated millions to Republican candidates.
The rise of other Radical Islamic groups in the Middle East. Other than going to war, what would any Republican have done to avoid this movement. There have been very few secular governments in the Middle East. Unfortunately, President Bush decided to invade one of them (Iraq), thereby eliminating the balance of power in the area (making for a much strong Iran).
Budget deficits, Medicare and Social Security. Funny that a conservative would complain about Medicare and Social Security, since these two programs have been targeted for elimination by conservatives for a very long time. As for budget deficits, all I can give you is the truth. The tax cuts and spending increases under Bush contributed 5.07 trillion in debt, whereas Obama programs will add 1.44 trillion in debt.
Slabside posted at 3:13 pm on Tue, Feb 28, 2012.
This is for rod:
"We are socialists, we are enemies of today's capitalistic economic system for the exploitation of the economically weak, with its unfair salaries, with its unseemly evaluation of a human being according to wealth and property instead of responsibility and performance, and we are all determined to destroy this system under all conditions."
Adolf Hitler (Speech of May 1, 1927. Quoted by Toland, 1976, p. 306)
Rich posted at 2:51 pm on Tue, Feb 28, 2012.
"And to Rich, dream on buddy. Reagan began the downfall of democracy...how can any thinking human say it was a success when only a few at the top (10%)benefitted while the rest of America (90%) have stagnated or fallen backwards...REALLYI"
Yeah REALLY. Lived through it all since Truman, the Reagan Era was about the best. You can quote meaningless numbers, whether you make them up, or take them out of another context and you won't change the fact that a lot of us have been there, seen and done that. Obama has done a seriously bad job and blaming his failures on non-existent, phantom 'rich people' is rather dogmatic, mindless, and frankly a fantasy.
"And while you're at it, please tell us how many societies throughout history have survived when all the riches are concentrated in the hands of the few and the masses watch their lifestyles decline? By my recollection they all failed."
Two points: The first being that, in the U.S. we stopped concentrating the wealth in the hands of a few over eighty years ago. Cornelius Vanderbilt was the last man to hold anywhere near a percentage point of the GDP as personal wealth. The idea that we are is mindless babble from the 1930s, and hasn't even been close to relevant since then. It's just parroting an old, antiquated dogma.
The second being that societies that had "all the riches are concentrated in the hands of the few and the masses watch their lifestyles decline," have proven, in terms of longevity, the most successful political entities ever created, led by the Byzantines at over a millennium. We're not even three hundred and on the verge of collapse.
Parroting a bunch of radical, and now even laughably anachronistic slogans and nonsense from the 1930s may be something you think relevant, but it's really just trying to sing Woody Guthrie to an audience that came to hear Snoop Dog.
VofReason posted at 1:25 pm on Tue, Feb 28, 2012.
Darn didn't work in the real world. Rod, any other ideas?
VofReason posted at 1:24 pm on Tue, Feb 28, 2012.
I am going to take this theory to heart. I will go to my boss and tell him that no matter what budget he has been given, I need to have more money, much more money for what I do. That the level I am paid at is do to a flawed internal economy of the company and well, we are just going to have to tell the people who buy our product that the prices are going up. Surely they will see the logic in paying more then well the market will bare for those products to correct the ills of our internal short. Hold tight, I will let you know what he says.
VofReason posted at 1:20 pm on Tue, Feb 28, 2012.
I think our friend Rod's "facts" assume current spending does not change. I mean how can you shrink government handouts when everyone has been so irreparably harmed by the mean rich people. I mean everyone knows that it is poor people who really drive business developement and the economy. Yes, we just need to take the money away from the rich people who did nothing to make the money to begin with and give it to the poor people who have been hurt by the flawed economy. Then we will be on the path to success.
Slabside posted at 11:30 am on Tue, Feb 28, 2012.
Everyone please take note how the racist Libtool rodini completely skirts the facts that I posted about his messiah. Facts are a pesky thing huh rod? [beam]
Rodini posted at 8:20 am on Tue, Feb 28, 2012.
Master of Nonsense, with Satan's phone number 666;
Apparently you have great difficulty comprehending the English language, right?
The letter above CLEARLY states the information comes from the ‘Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget.’
May I suggest you use a cool little search engine called GOOGLE, type in those words above and find what you seem incapable of doing without step by step instructions, OK!
And to Rich, dream on buddy. Reagan began the downfall of democracy...how can any thinking human say it was a success when only a few at the top (10%)benefitted while the rest of America (90%) have stagnated or fallen backwards...REALLYI
I'm sure you can come up with something more intelligent can't you?
And while you're at it, please tell us how many societies throughout history have survived when all the riches are concentrated in the hands of the few and the masses watch their lifestyles decline? By my recollection they all failed.
As stated above, you can not expect any top heavy structure with a narrow base that gets smaller and smaller to stand up for very long! It comes crashing down!
Masterrogue666 posted at 8:42 pm on Mon, Feb 27, 2012.
Yawn....
Rod: Time and again, I've seen you write how those you don't agree with never give "proof" of it by a link.
I recently asked you, in a very nice, polite, HONEST manner, to provide a link to the information YOU SPOKE about. I wanted to read it. You refused to do so, in what I consider a very childish way.
Ironic that you condemn others for what YOU DO yourself....
Slabside posted at 11:12 am on Mon, Feb 27, 2012.
Rod, what has the last 3 years gotten us?
Permanent 9% unemployment.
1.8% economic growth.
Highest Black-American unemployment since records have been kept.
BILLIONS sent to reformulated al Qaeda "muslim brotherhood".
BILLIONS sent to Brazil for THEM to develope THEIR off shore oil industry and create jobs IN Brazil.
BILLIONS for all the phony "Solydra's" for campaign contributions.
Handing Egypt, Libya, Yemen, Iraq, Afghanistan to radical Islam with Syria on deck.
Record deficits, record debt growth, gutting Social Security and Medicare to buy the deadbeat vote.
The American people are seeing what an unAmerican, unConstitutional failure Obama has been.
Rich posted at 10:28 am on Mon, Feb 27, 2012.
Rod,
Reagan's Voodoo worked better and longer than anything else ever has, nothing lasts forever. Greed, if you want to call it that, basically it's just self-interest that drives the world's economic systems. If the system is run by the government history has shown it will fail, precisely because the non-production of the government, basically shifting money leaves everybody short. So as the government grows, as with Obama's gigantic deficit and governmental expansion into the private sector because of a lack of production, shortages fuel higher prices, less jobs. In this of course, it's the middle class and especially the working class, who sell and otherwise lose their assets, so it appears to be an asset shift, when actually the upper classes are losing, as in repoing a house they invested 300K in, which is now worth 140K.
If there is an answer it lies on the other side of the ledger. On the production side, but government has crippled this. American automobiles came from Henry Ford's barn, computers from Steve Jobs' garage. Today, the government stops you from playing with solar energy on your roof, gunpowder (to the point of regulating or banning fireworks), and they won't allow you to patent something if they think it's a perpetual motion device. The average man is banned from the next discovery because the government won't let him find it. Maybe it'll cause a fire or two, some people will fall off the roof, But government the size of ours, prevents what is needed. Invention, creation, production. Which, yes, is greed if you want to call it that. But without it, government just hands out money that becomes worth less and less, until even the necessities are a luxury.
Accuracy posted at 10:27 am on Mon, Feb 27, 2012.
"Pay close attention to candidate proposals...."
Because U.S. Representative Ron Paul is the only candidate serious about reducing the deficit and the national debt. And "Dr. No" is the candidate that will reduce federal spending the most.
Rodini posted at 8:43 am on Mon, Feb 27, 2012.
And here's more to think about. Until those at the top allow the common good and to replaces individual greed, our nation will continue to flounder.
There is nothing wrong with the rich making money, but there is a point of no return.
When the shakers and movers think they and they alone have earned the right to every cent of profit and that those who actually produce their profits deserve next to nothing, you lose America's EXCEPTIONALISM!
And those of you who pronounce yourselves "PATRIOTS" please explain how patriotic it is when your vaunted upper class "makers" let "greed for maximum profits" justify closing American manufacturing plants that employ tens of thousands, move them overseas so "they and they alone" can earn a few extra dollars of profit? Is that "The American way?" Is that Patriotism?
Or is that really nothing more than "SIMPLY GREED" trumping "Patriotism?"
This is exactly why we had top tax rates in the 70-90% range for over 4 decades that saw the middle class expand and our economy grow at 4% annually. The top tax rates made it much easier for employers to divide profits equally between the top and the bottom in most companies. EX: If a business owner knew he was going to pay 90% of anything he earned over $1 million (in 1950 dollars) in taxes, wouldn't he be more likely to give his employees a pay raise or increase their benefits? After all a happy workforce usually makes for a stronger organization, right?
I could go on and on, but most of you ideological adherents to Reaganomics can't or won't open your minds to facts and truth anyway!
Rodini posted at 8:19 am on Mon, Feb 27, 2012.
Capitalism is a "flawed system" when it is allowed to regress into nothing more than a system of greed.
When those with the biggest bank accounts purposely decide that they, and ONLY THEY, are allowed to make the rules that govern EVERYONE ELSE.
For decades, high tax rates on the wealthiest, a safety net for those at the bottom and the elderly and strong unions that raised the lifestyle and grew the middle class, all contributed to a strong economy because it was a broad based economy with more and more families able to enjoy a slightly bigger slice of the American Pie year after year. People got raises, their benefits got better year after year and the American Dream was within their reach!
Then Reagans VODOO economics became the newest fashion and the formula that had worked so well for so many, suddenly got pushed aside and GREED became the new buzzword of the moneyed elite.
No longer were executives happy earning 8-10 times the average salary of their employess...THEY NEEDED 20 times or 40 times or 60 times what they paid their employees. To acheive that goal they had to make changes...and that meant a slow but steady cuts in pay and benefits for everyone not in the top 10%. This has been shown to be true by numerous studies that show over the past 30 years, under mostly Republican control, the poor only saw an increase of 20%, the middle class only got about 45% (just barely enough to cover inflation...never mind it also takes two incomes instead of one) while THE WEALTHY saw incomes increase by 275%.
This is not a sustainable formula for economic growth and anyone (with a wee bit of common sense) should be able to see this clearly! You can not watch your workforce struggle to gain ground or slowly fall backwards and expect to see economic growth continue! Eventually you have a top loaded system with no firm foundation beneath it and it all collapses to the ground!
Wake up Republicans...you have managed to use GREED to turn a viable sytem for all into a single-minded system that is dying!
Slabside posted at 12:44 am on Mon, Feb 27, 2012.
chatmandu002, BRAVO!!!
chatmandu002 posted at 3:15 pm on Sun, Feb 26, 2012.
"After all, what’s most important? Preserving benefits for those left behind by a flawed economic system, or making sure the wealthy and big corporations get to keep an extra 10 percent?"
Rod,
According you last sentence you are calling our system of capitalism a flawed economic system. I could spend time defending capitalism extolling its virtues and it weaknesses, but I'm sure you and Dale would not be impressed. But please provide to use an economic system that will work better. Please....
You aggressively accuse the republican candidates of not offering a balance budget, decry their future deficits and portray them as hypocrites. While at the same time I hear nothing, repeat nothing, of the deficits and debt of our present president.
You conveniently over look the spending and budget bills that have been offered by the House of Representatives, which were shelved by the Senate leader. Bills that would lead to a balanced budget and reforms that are needed for the entitlement and welfare programs you cry for.
So Rod the next time you come to wail about how bad the republicans are, you should also come with solutions to what you wail about. At least the republicans are trying to turn things around. All we get from the democrats is more "tax and spend".
Deficits and debt always matter.
Rich posted at 12:25 pm on Sun, Feb 26, 2012.
Deficits do and don't matter, it depends on other factors. When a government exceeds 20% of the GDP, the deficit can kill your economy, Why? Government is unproductive and must be supported by production. A service, such as medicine or insurance getting out of proportion can also kill an economy for essentially the same reasons. A deficit adds to the size of government, unless the increase is met on the other side of the ledger, with an increase in production and the private sector, that's disastrous economically. When an economy is producing, and the production rising, a deficit matches that growth in the public sector to maintain an economic balance. Production has to be consumed, or you create an oversupply that likewise, crashes your economy.
Right now, we are lacking production, the government is too large a percentage of the GDP, so the deficit matters, in that it has to shrink, or be eliminated. It isn't it's size, but rather it's proportion of the GDP that matters. It is currently financed, in largest proportion, by the retirement funds of the baby boom generation, who are leaving production, to be un-productive on the proceeds of that, The heaviest hit will come 2022 to 2027, so it needs to be prepared for.
What amazes me is that we figured this out in a calculus class in 1968, and we were fortune tellers. Every domino has fallen perfectly. So unless we're up for some pretty radical changes, well folks, it may get a little better, but it's not going to get well. Government expanding into a void created by a lack of production is self-defeating.
Dale Whiting posted at 10:46 am on Sun, Feb 26, 2012.
Rod,
I look forward to reading the comments to your piece. They should prove interesting, trite but interesting. Were you once a carpenter? You are quite good a hitting nails squarely on their heads!