Here’s a challenge for America’s drug crusaders: Show us a crime of any kind committed under the influence of cannabis from 1750 to 1920. I have searched the archives in vain seeking a homicide, assault, rape or any other violent act connected to marijuana while it was legal.
Obviously Mike Ross is correct that “It’s the laws against drugs that cause crimes.” because when drugs were legal there was no such thing as “drug crime.”
It’s time to end the farce of an unwinnable drug war that causes a thousand times the troubles the drugs by themselves could ever do.
Ralph Givens
Daly City, Calif.
Leon Ceniceros posted at 9:28 am on Fri, Jun 8, 2012.
LM@O - ROTF (and I ain't ever "stoned").
Of course there are no statistics about Marijuana (Cannabis) use from 1750 - 1920...and you won't find any from 0 (B.C.) to 1750 (A.D.) either. Now there may have been a couple Neanderthals that took some "hits" now and then and painted their hands on the walls in some cave...but there was no wide spread use of Marijuana back then.
What negates this Letter's whole premise is the question of what happened to the 92 years since 1920? Why didn't the Letter Writer put up those statistics. Marijuana was restricted to the Chicano Communities in California, Arizona, New Mexico and Texas until the late 1950's, early 60's. The the Anglo (White) Hippies and Love-Children discovered their ...."DRUG OF CHOICE" = POTENT, PORTABLE AND CHEAP.
Hey, everybody has and opinion....their like "belly buttons" ....but give the reader some credit and give them some facts or statistics that they can sink their teeth into and research.
I ain't not prude either....done Hash(Army), done Mary-Jane(California)....all it did was give me stomach muscle cramps from laughing for hours on end...a splitting headache the next morning and made me go out and buy a bottle of Murine to stop my eyes from looking like a bunny rabbit's.
Engaged Voter posted at 9:45 am on Fri, Jun 8, 2012.
I didn't realize that our Founding Fathers were not Anglos, but instead from a "Chicano community".
Not a user of MJ, but I am opposed to false claims and revisions of history.
Disappointed, but not surprised. Poor Leon has already demonstrated his complete lack of accurate American history knowledge. He probably still believes this country was founded on Christianity. ;)
JMJ posted at 10:15 am on Fri, Jun 8, 2012.
GIven the era in history where this was legal, there wouldn't be any statistics because it would be like saying a crime was committed while under the influence of aspirin. The drug wasn't investigated. We could, as easily, say that all crimes were committed under the influence.
Accuracy posted at 10:24 am on Fri, Jun 8, 2012.
“Cops love going after Marijuana users” . . . Not really. Marijuana is illegal under “federal law” and the U.S. government does not allow legal use of medical-marijuana. Feds not cops.
Ralph Givens, from Daly City, California, is only advocating legalizing what federal law criminalizes.
Cerulean posted at 11:08 am on Fri, Jun 8, 2012.
“Hippies and Love-Children” scared hell out of their mommas and papas. Just like all young people, hippies experimented with life. The problem was that there were so many ‘baby boomers’ that the older, more control freak generation, thought it best to use government to illicit marijuana use thereby ‘controlling’ young people; making them criminals in the eyes of the law.
The problem is exactly what the letter describes, in the case of marijuana, the punishment exceeds, “causes a thousand times the troubles the drugs by themselves could ever do.”
truth posted at 3:01 pm on Fri, Jun 8, 2012.
Has anybody seen my pipe?
malcolmkyle posted at 12:54 am on Sat, Jun 9, 2012.
Marijuana's prohibition has ALWAYS been rooted in hate, paranoia, racism, misinformation, half-truths, and outright lies. It's your right to disagree, just try to do it factually and with less lies, hate & abuse. Everyone of us has had enough time to see through, and disregard, the BS, hate and lies we've already heard a million times. They were BS, hate and lies then, they are BS, hate and lies now.
There is NO debate. Marijuana is absolutely safer than alcohol, tobacco, or even most, of our over-the-counter "medicines". Prohibition, on the other hand, is a costly nightmare that only enriches criminals and corrupt politicians. Millions of citizens are already using marijuana, legal or not. What many sane people are proposing is to take the criminal aspect out of it and collect revenues from its sale instead of spending millions of precious tax dollars on doomed-to-failure enforcement.
"Imagine coming out of surgery and the nurse caring for you was drunk. Or having to work harder on your job to make up for a co-worker who shows up drunk on whiskey. It could happen everywhere in the United States. The repeal of the Twenty-first Amendment would do more than simply legalize alcohol. Doing so would hurt America's economy, raise business costs, and make it harder to create jobs. Employees would be allowed to come to work drunk and employers would be unable to punish an employee for being drunk until after a workplace accident. Not only could worker's compensation premiums rise, but businesses will lose millions in federal grants for violating federal law. America's economy is bad enough. Repealing the Twenty-first Amendment will hurt workers and business and cost jobs. Twenty-five national newspapers including the New York Times, United Autoworkers and Senator John Boehner agree: stop the repeal of the Twenty-first Amendment."
Sounds crazy when you replace the words "high" with "drunk, "pot" with "alcohol" and "Legalize and Regulate Marijuana" with "the repeal of the Twenty-first Amendment", doesn't it ?!
chatmandu002 posted at 1:28 am on Sat, Jun 9, 2012.
I think we have enough legal drugs already. No need something that also stinks up the air.
sockratties posted at 9:10 am on Sat, Jun 9, 2012.
Ralph – Although I agree that use of marijuana should be decriminalized and controlled, your analogy is laughable. If murder were legal you wouldn’t be able to find any reports of homicide. You don’t find statistics or data about alcohol, which is controlled, when a crime is committed unless the criminal is above some predetermined limit. Been sampling a little of the medical stuff out there in California?
bobunf posted at 9:58 am on Sat, Jun 9, 2012.
Although cigarettes and other tobacco products are legal, there are very voluminous statistics concerning the 300,000 deaths and millions of health problems originating from tobacco each year in the US.
Although alcohol is legal, there are very voluminous statistics concerning the 100,000 deaths, millions of health problems, injuries and social problems originating from use of alcohol each year in the US.
No such statistics exist for marijuana even though it use is very widespread and affects a percentage of the population comparable to tobacco use.
This obviously leads to the conclusion that marijuana is far less deleterious to health than tobacco or alcohol. By far the most significant adverse effect of marijuana use is that you might get arrested. Which does seem pretty stupid.
That adverse effect is reflected in our society by the astonishing high incarceration rate in the US. It cannot be hammered home enough how anomalous Americas incarceration rate has become in the world, and in history. in 2012 we incarcerate people at seven times the rate that we did in 1972, and at eight times the rate of other developed countries today.
This has dreadful economic, political, social and personal effects. We are poorer and more violent as some of the consequences. And most of this is due to the stupid drug war, which has produced no visible benefit for anyone except those with a financial interest in prohibition.
Leon Ceniceros posted at 10:26 am on Sun, Jun 10, 2012.
Dear "bobunf" (for some reason you don't or won't use your real name),
You could make your same argument for the man/woman who looks at "kiddie porn", "beastiality" or "sado-masochism".............COULDN'T YOU.......[wink]
bobunf posted at 6:24 pm on Sun, Jun 10, 2012.
Leon, the answer is No.
The argument used to justify kiddie porn laws is that purchases of such material encourage producers and thus the acts themselves. Such acts are harmful to the participants. This argument certainly has plausibility. The number of people convicted or otherwise inconvenienced because of the laws respect to kiddie porn, etc. looking in the last 40 years is less than a thousand - probably less than a hundred.
Our laws concerning kiddie porn appear to work and do not cause great harm to our country.
On the other hand, the same argument with respect to marijuana use is not plausible. And the number of people convicted or otherwise inconvenienced because of the stupid drug war is multi-millions. And all of that has produced no desirable result in 40 years.
A policy that doesn't work for 40 years and causes great harm to individuals and our whole country should obviously be changed.
The adage is that "all analogies are lame." Leon, this anology was is beyond lame - I hesitate to say "brain dead."
My name, by the way, is Bob Unferth. It's not worth the trouble to change my login.
mrconservative posted at 10:13 pm on Sun, Jun 10, 2012.
Engaged Voter, we WERE founded on Christian values. That's a fact. Get used to it.
Engaged Voter posted at 12:12 pm on Mon, Jun 11, 2012.
mrconservative - You are entitled to your own opinion.
You are NOT entitled to your own facts. Stop spewing ignorance and educate yourself.
I'm going to call you out whenever I see you spewing lies in your comments. THAT is a fact. Get used to it.
VofReason posted at 1:20 pm on Mon, Jun 11, 2012.
Right that is why our money says in Pagan we trust. And most of our Federal and State buildings built prior to the "Age of Enlightenment" had references to God. Probably those evil Christians went and did that in the night while no one was looking. Mr Engaged Voter must have a high sense of deniability of what the eyes can see. On MJ, the crimes unseen are the unattached parents who smoke pot and give up the responsibility over their children. The other crimes are the demotivated children that become a permenant draw on their parents because they fail to luanch. I don't necessarily have qualm with legalization, but these are the implications- legal or not.
Engaged Voter posted at 3:55 pm on Mon, Jun 11, 2012.
Wow...such ignorance and superstitious nonsense...from a person who chooses to call themselves "Voice of REASON".
"Probably those evil Christians went and did that in the night while no one was looking."
No, the Knights of Columbus (I guess you could call them evil Christians) were the ones responsible. Take 5 freaking minutes to research it, and LEARN something for a change.
I don't think it's unREASONable to expect someone with the moniker "voiceofREASON" to use it once in awhile. ;)
bobunf posted at 8:27 pm on Mon, Jun 11, 2012.
The stupid and counter-productive drug war is not a Christian value and should be stopped.
Engaged Voter posted at 12:18 pm on Tue, Jun 12, 2012.
bobunf - Actually the drug war falls under the "value" of ..."render unto Caeser".
(the Fed being the "Caeser" here)
But I do agree it is stupid, counterproductive, and should be stopped.
downtownresident posted at 9:31 am on Sun, Jun 17, 2012.
If all the do-gooders want to engage in a war, attack meth and legalize pot. Treat it just like alcohol!
My step daughter is in jail for armed robbery and kidnapping because of meth! I'm raising her 3 children. Each child has a different father and only one of them even knows his kids are alive and finally being well cared for instead of being abandoned every night in favor of a life of crime to support her meth habit.
Pot users needlessly clog the courts and jails.
Legalize pot and go after meth criminals.