Let’s simplify it:
The feds cannot use the Commerce Clause to mandate that you purchase something.
But that no longer matters. The Supreme Court has ruled that the feds can mandate that you purchase anything the feds want you to purchase. All they have to do is to impose an onerous tax on you if you do not purchase what they tell you to purchase.
This is a fundamental change in American law.
It is a lot like Shirah law in Muslim countries. Everyone in these countries has what they call “freedom of religion.” But if one chooses a religion other than Islam they must pay an onerous tax and cannot hold office.
Jack C. McVickers
Scottsdale
sockratties posted at 9:00 am on Fri, Jul 6, 2012.
SCOTUS did not change the constitution. What Justice Roberts did was determine that the penalty for not buying insurance was essentially a tax. If one looks at the way it is imposed and levied, it’s easy to see that this is true. It’s back in the hands of Congress now, which is where it should be. Unfortunately that also means nothing will be done until after the elections except a lot of noise making and finger pointing. Roberts did not come down on the liberal side of the court or against the conservatives. He came down on the side of the Constitution which has been interpreted to allow assessment of taxes.
pnutman posted at 9:31 am on Fri, Jul 6, 2012.
Justice Roberts ruling was 2 FOLD---Calling it a TAX in sheep's clothing and throwing down the gauntlet with the TAXPAYERS and making them ultimately decide
for themselves by the American WAY and that is thru the Ballot Box in Nov.
Using not only the Presidential decision vote but also the most meaningful HOUSE and SENATE folks. The Voter's will mandate how they want not only the Health care ruling by the Court but also Immigration Dilemma. YEAH for the Court.....
Dale Whiting posted at 10:43 am on Fri, Jul 6, 2012.
Here's the problem Jack! Those who can [but choose not] to pruchase health insurance, and then have some sort of catestrophic event sending them to the emergency room, usually cannot pay. So you and I who can afford to pay do so by having to pay higher prices ourselves. So either we take the Ron Paul approach and bar the doors to these people, or we "encourage" them to act more responsibly. Not much different that forcing you and I to pruchase automobility liability insurance.
Deal this this Jack. Stop being such a Neo-conservative dunderhead.
mrconservative posted at 11:07 am on Fri, Jul 6, 2012.
"Deal this this Jack"?
What the heck does that mean?
chatmandu002 posted at 11:15 am on Fri, Jul 6, 2012.
Bad decision by Justice Roberts. Seems like he was grasping for straws to make Obamacare work. One question changed the whole picture, Is it a tax? Now for the first time in our history you are born with a tax. Next will be the carbon tax for breathing. And so the government gets bigger and the freedoms become smaller.
Arizona Willie posted at 11:57 am on Fri, Jul 6, 2012.
This is NOT the first time in history you are born with a tax.
Ever since the Income Tax was passed you were born owing a tax on anything you earned during your lifetime.
If, like Romney, you owned multi-million dollar trust funds from the day you were born - you owed taxes on that ( although not much ). And when you die you have the estate tax.
And, in fact, you do NOT have to pay this tax in the Affordable Health Care Act.
All you have to do is have insurance. Either through your employer or self-purchased. You only have to pay a tax in you want to stick other people with your hospital bills when you get hurt or sick and go to the ER without insurance or money to pay your own bills.
Strange indeed, that the Republicans who alway preach " personal responsibility " don't want people to be personally responsible for paying their own medical bills.
Before Obama ... the Republicans had proposed the exact same penalties for not having insurance --- but since it comes from Obama they want to scream about how terrible it is to force people to buy insurance. When, in fact, your do NOT have to buy insurance. You can simply pay the penalty tax for being un-insured.
chuckles3 posted at 1:04 pm on Fri, Jul 6, 2012.
Another bad argument AZ Willie. Income tax is not being born with a tax. If you choose not to work, you earn no income. You can easily get on the government cheese and never pay tax in your life.
When you die, the Government will bury you with Taxpayer money.
And for the rest of your argument, I guess the Government should have a 'tax' on people that don't buy their own food and 'stick it someone else' to pay for their food stamps?
Nice try. Fail.
Engaged Voter posted at 1:13 pm on Fri, Jul 6, 2012.
mrconservative - attacking Dale for a typo? Nothing to say about the subject, or the points Dale made?
Haven't we learned our lesson yet? Or do I need to skunk you again? ;)
Engaged Voter posted at 1:17 pm on Fri, Jul 6, 2012.
First they scream at illegal aliens not paying for ER care.
Now they scream about this - the OPPOSITE of the illegal alien issue - making people be responsible for their OWN health care, one way or another.
Do they realize they are screaming from both sides of their mouths?
I guess some people just like to scream and whine for the sake of screaming and whining...how sad and pathetic.
sockratties posted at 1:45 pm on Fri, Jul 6, 2012.
At least this is a voluntary tax. If you don't want to pay it to make sure your fellow citizens aren't going to get stuck with your bills, buy medical insurance. If you don't want to be responsible, we'll take it out of your income ahead of time. If you don't have an income you're a dead-beat anyway so belly up to the public dole. You've aready sold your dignity.
The most difficult part of the mandate is going to be making sure Congress keeps their paws off the insurance tax money and doesn't decide to use it for earmarks or spend it on foreign aid.
Arizona Willie posted at 3:23 pm on Fri, Jul 6, 2012.
chuckles3 ... your hatred of the poor is showing.
When Clinton was Pres they made changes in welfare so people can't stay on it their whole life.
Very very few did that anyway.
Living on welfare can't be much fun.
It always puzzles me why right wingers think people ENJOY being on welfare and deliberately do things to get on welfare.
I'm sure there probably is someone like that.
But they would be very rare indeed.
I don't see why righties think people enjoy being poor so much. They never explain why they think people are trying to skroo them and live off of taxes they can't get out of paying. Just make wild accusations about people never working etc. etc.
And many of the people who complain so bitterly about people who get government assistance also declare themselves to be " born again " Christians.
But Jesus would not talk about the poor that way.
mrconservative posted at 10:36 pm on Fri, Jul 6, 2012.
EV, you call that an attack? It was a friendly question, nothing more.
Accuracy posted at 9:36 am on Sat, Jul 7, 2012.
Jack McVickers,
This fight is not over . . . The House of Representatives has set July 11th to vote for a full repeal of ObamaCare.
sockratties posted at 11:44 am on Sat, Jul 7, 2012.
Accuracy,
And you think if it passes the House, it will pass the Senate. And if it passes the Senate (unlikesy) Obama won't veto it? Yeah, right. And there's an Easter Bunny, too! That's all pre-election posturing. Much ado about nothing!
fae4now posted at 12:31 pm on Sat, Jul 7, 2012.
Moving forward I think it will be interesting to see how employers handle this....
My prediction: Workers will become far more interested in whether or not a prospective employer offers group insurance (which many have weaseled away from in recent decades by making it unaffordable)
The worker will recognize that if he has to buy his own insurance he'll need a higher wage to offset that expense or can accept a lesser wage if insurance, at least partially paid by the employer, is included.
Employers who do not offer insurance will have a harder time attracting a talented workforce. So insurance will be offered as a perk.
This may sound obvious to some as, of course, it's been done before.
But some of you who have been out of the workforce for a while may have forgotten that corporate America has been slashing benefits with a vengeance since the 80's and much of what you may have taken for granted in your careers is unheard of today.
Chuckles, you can blame corporate America for the prevalence of 'government cheese'. You may be surprised to know that many who work a 40 hour week STILL qualify for food stamps and other forms of assistance. We call them the working poor and you can expect to see more of this as they are the fastest growing segment of the the working population.
While corporations report record profits and lavish outrageous perks on execs, YOU get to pick up the tab for their stinginess toward workers. It's been a few years but WalMart took some heat for routinely including in their hiring packages info about how to apply for government assistance, food stamps, Medicaid etc. And remember, Wally world is Americas largest employer and the business model that other corporate greed-masters drool over. Safe to say it happens - A LOT!
Imagine being hired FOR A JOB and being instructed on day one about qualifying for aid!
Your outrage toward the poor is misdirected - it should be aimed at corporations who do business this way. Shameful.
Accuracy posted at 6:23 pm on Sat, Jul 7, 2012.
What Americans want is a common-sense, step-by-step approach to health care reform that will protect Americans’ access to the care they need, from the doctors they choose, at a lower cost. That’s the will of the American people.
Yes, the House of Republicans released their proposal to repeal the 2010 ObamaCare law and is expected to pass by the majority ruled Republican House.
Yes, the House passed a similar bill last year, but it died in the Democratic-controlled Senate.
Yes, by passing the House repeal bill this month, the House of Republicans will again give the Senate and President Obama a second opportunity to follow the will of the American people.
Yes, to repeal ObamaCare, we (American people) must first repeal Barack Obama.
Masterrogue666 posted at 8:12 pm on Sat, Jul 7, 2012.
When I get the same health care benefits as our politicians, I will become a believer....
sockratties posted at 5:07 am on Sun, Jul 8, 2012.
[lol] M666... You can get the same health care benefits as our politicians. Unfortunately you will have to pay for it, the same as you do for the politicians health care benefits.And it will be with after tax dollars, they still need their nice fat salaries.
fae4now posted at 10:30 am on Sun, Jul 8, 2012.
M666,
Yes you can get the same insurance coverage as our politicians.
The late Senator E. Kennedy advocated for it as did the Clinton's and numerous others.
When it's available to everyone it's called single payer Universal coverage .
But you would never support that because you would scream about the cost and fear of government control, loss of free markets, etc., etc., etc.
VofReason posted at 1:38 pm on Mon, Jul 9, 2012.
The government has severly meesed up the relatively simple task of delivering the mail. You think they will be able to create efficiency in delivering healthcare. That takes a leap of faith. "Your hatred of the "poor" is showing" I am not sure we know who the poor are anymore. Interestingly, many of the poor seem to be able to afford cell phones, cares, TVs, etc etc but cannot figure out to feed or provide healthcare for themselves. I have always filed and paid taxes faithfully and never taken aggresive means. If President Obama is elected and given carte blanc for the next 4 years, I will hire a CPA and take every opportunity available to limit what I pay in taxes.
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