Notwithstanding efforts to obtain funding to modernize nuclear weapons and their delivery systems as a part of the U.S. Senate ratification of START, Arizona’s Jon Kyl and John McCain voted “nay.”
Senators Lamar Alexander (Tenn.), Thad Cochran (Miss.), Susan Collins and Olympia Snowe (Maine), Bob Bennett (Utah), Jud Gregg (N.H.), Johnny Isakson (Ga.), Mike Johanns (Neb.), Dick Lugar (Ind.), Lisa Murkowski (Alaska) and George Voinovich (Ohio) — all Republicans — joined with Joe Liebermann (Conn.) and Bernie Sanders (Vt.) — both Independents — in voting for ratification. What is the matter with McCain and Kyl? Wasn’t $85 billion enough of a concession? Where some conservatives point to Republicans as having worked together in the lame duck session with Democrats, can Republican leadership by Kyl and Kentucky Sen. Mitch McConnell, both voting nay, be characterized as cooperation? Heck no!
Dale Whiting, Chandler
—
Letters policy: Click here to submit a letter. Please be brief (no more than 300 words) and type or print name, address, city and phone number for verification. Comments may be edited for clarity and length.
rrffcc1 posted at 7:35 am on Wed, Dec 29, 2010.
Why do you expect otherwise? The "No No No..." is firmly implanted by now.
Dale Whiting posted at 8:38 am on Wed, Dec 29, 2010.
rrffcc1.
I doubt that anyone can reasonably expect other conduct. I certainly don't. However the point being made is that Neo-con Republican Leadership would lay claim to having worked with Democrats when in fact, at crunch time, they said "Nay, Nay, Nay."
The question is "Who swallows this balderdash?" Answer: Neo-cons devotees. Neo-con logic does not require reasonableness. Who was it who said, "You can fool all of the people some of the time and some of the people all of the time. But you cannot fool all of the people all of the time?"
Well, neo-cons are being fooled most of the time by those whom they call their leaders. And do not think I am particularly partisan. Democratic leadership does its fair share of fooling, too. To name just one, Johnson fooled us with the Gulf of Tonkin. To be even handed, "W" fooled us with weapons of mass destruction. I know of only one President who campaigned on never telling lies. And his brutal truth telling became his Waterloo. He told us the truth about dependency on crude oil, foreign or domestic. He told us the truth about neuclear energy. We needed to standardize design or desaster would follow. He told us the truth about our unfettered support of Iran's a tyrannical but pro-western dictator. And when that dictator fell ill, Iran got even. So we are getting even back.
It's high time we stopped allowing ourselves to be fooled. Those who condenm Wikileaks need to understand that those doing the leaking to Wikipleaks are trying to stop these misrepresentations. But it may take a generation to turn the current crop of leakers into Daniel Ellsbergs.
EmperorSmith posted at 11:52 am on Wed, Dec 29, 2010.
The weapon of mass destruction was a shame, he had a hard on over his oldman not finishing the job.
I think the START treaty is good, not the cold war anymore. Even in the worst case scenario. We go to war do you really think it would be that hard to start building nuclear weapons.
Dale Whiting posted at 2:25 pm on Wed, Dec 29, 2010.
Emperor Smith, you ask "Would it be that hard to start building nuclear weapons?" When engaged by tactical nucs from the big boys, the game esclates to stragetic nucs too quicky to do anything other than find shelter or bend over and kiss it good bye. When engaged by a home made terrorist nuc or dirty bomb, there is no target at which a retaliatory strick can be directed.
You need some training in this area to appreciate how the game would be played. I recommend that you either take Command and General Staff school or as an alternative try reading Isaiah 2:2-5. Or you might try some "Misses Robinson. "Now matter which you choose, you loose."
Slabside posted at 3:00 pm on Wed, Dec 29, 2010.
The START treaty is another Obama scam. It lets the Russians R&D on new nukes to their heart's content while America is not allowed to improve on it's defense capabilities. Millions of dollars are included to be spent in START with no clear definition on where the money is going.
EmperorSmith posted at 3:39 pm on Wed, Dec 29, 2010.
Talking digging out and then go to real war, a first strike will not kill everyone just the city dwellers.
EmperorSmith posted at 3:46 pm on Wed, Dec 29, 2010.
Dale you are to brainwashed to think a nuclear exchange is the end of it all. It would be the beginning of the fight.
Dale Whiting posted at 6:19 pm on Wed, Dec 29, 2010.
Second strike capability?
Not according to the folks who teach C&GS. Infrastructure would be destroyed. The second strike would be much like throwing tomatoes from those bunkers from which you just dug out.
And if the START treaty is another scam, 1) why did Republicans demand $85 billion for weapons systems modernization? Was that their price for pork barrell spending? 2) Why did all living former Secretaries of State [both Republican and Democratic] call for its ratification, none expressing any reservations what so ever and none suggesting any Kyl quid pro quo? And 3) why didn't Kyl clearly state that our weapons were out of date? Much of that $85 billion could be headed to Raytheon in Tucson. Don't they make cruize missiles there?
And do any of you know what warhead and delivery systems modernization really means? I do. That was part of what I did while on active duty. And understand a 20 killo ton boom from an old, outdated warhead is just as devestating as is a 20 killo ton boom from a modern one, provided they have been adequately maintained. Much of modernization goes to improving reliability while reducing maintenance demands. Plus, the USSR was not doing much to keep their arsenal modernized. They were being kept busy trying to match Reagan's star wars initiative. That effort plus their Afghanistan fiasco broke their economic backs. Iraq and now our Afghanistan fiasco are breaking our economic backs.
Now you say "We should START a new modernization arms race?" The current race centers more on effective conventional tactical weapons systems development like unmanned preditor drones than on making more modern booms!
You guys have a heck of a lot to learn!
Dale Whiting posted at 6:24 pm on Wed, Dec 29, 2010.
P.S.
Slabside,
you state START "lets the Russians R&D on new nukes to their heart's content while America is not allowed to improve on it's defense capabilities." That statement implies 1) that we need to update our systems. We don't. 2) that if the Russians do modernize, they will eclipse us. Not clear that they will do more than what we already have done. 3) that using nucs for defense is something other than MAD, i.e mutually assured destruction. That was why we STARTED START in the first place. Or did you forget.
Test: Without looking on line in any sort of source like Wikipedia, name the words composing the acrynom, START. Hint, ART stands for Arms Reduction Talks or Treaty.
Dale Whiting posted at 6:31 pm on Wed, Dec 29, 2010.
P.P.S.
However none of you responded to the point of my article. Can holding out for $85 billion for modernization of delivery systems be 1) anything other than pork and 2) then after holding out, yet voting Nay, can tne Neo-con[fidence men running the Republican Party] fairly say they cooperated? Heck no, it cannot. Lier, lier, pants on fire!
Slabside posted at 6:49 pm on Wed, Dec 29, 2010.
It's LIAR LIAR pants on fire. No wonder no one here takes you seriously.
Dale Whiting posted at 10:13 pm on Wed, Dec 29, 2010.
Yes, spelling has always been difficult for me. I had better things to do, like reason logically.
Slabside posted at 12:01 am on Thu, Dec 30, 2010.
Keep telling yourself that and it may come true. NOT!
EmperorSmith posted at 1:24 pm on Thu, Dec 30, 2010.
And if I don't killed 5 years from now I would strike back, or 10, 50 years war lasts forever until there is peace ask the jews about that.
EmperorSmith posted at 1:26 pm on Thu, Dec 30, 2010.
And if the START treaty is another scam, 1) why did Republicans demand $85 billion for weapons systems modernization?
Lobbyist
EmperorSmith posted at 1:36 pm on Thu, Dec 30, 2010.
side note, does it cover tactical nukes?
Slabside posted at 4:02 pm on Thu, Dec 30, 2010.
Emperor, Repubs requested the money because START is full of earmarks for side projects for Obama and his ilk. The Repubs know none of the money is going for defense projects so that is why they requested it.
Dale Whiting posted at 7:37 pm on Thu, Dec 30, 2010.
Funny, Slabside,
But it was Kyl who took credit for the first $12 billion. Why would the Senate leadership tack on more pork if pork usually means opposition? Are you saying the pork was for Democrats to get their support? Or perhaps those 11 Republicans and 2 independents who joined in. They are the only ones who worked together on START.
But can Kly be characterized as working together. I think not! And where is your proof. Facts Slabside, Facts. Remember every living former Sec. State supported ratification even before the pork was added!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
My point was "If Kyl tacks on the first $12 Billion in pork, but still signals opposition, then takes credit for working with Democrats during the lame duck session, and votes against ratification, what fools will believe that he can speak the truth about working with his opposition?" No need to answer. Your responses have already identified two who were fooled.
And Emperor Smith.
Still working on what the first two letters of START stand for? I already told you ART stands for "Arms Reduction Treaty." Now I'll tell you that the S stands for "Strategic." Want to guess what the T stands for? " .actical" You can fill in the first letter for yourself.
Yes, START applies to all nucs. I worked on tactical nucs while on active duty. And after learning how to maintain them, I studied the strategies for using tactical nucs, strategies which eventually lead the Brass to realize that using tactical nucs in a tactical war environment will almost certainly lead to escalation and the use of strategic nucs. This is why STARTing another arms race, one aimed at modernizing warheads and delivery systems, whether tactical or strategic, is sheer MADness. Mutually Assured Destruction-ness. Let's call this START-raving MADness!
You guys need to study before you opine. Speaking from uninformed positions makes you both look like idiots.
And sorry for this condescending attitude. But I cannot think of a better way to describe your positions other than sheer "idiocy" i.e. something noticably foolish or stupid!
Rich, do you have a better word? I'm sure you had some ot this while on active duty, yourself.
Now answer me this! Have any of you, Emperor Smith, Slabside, Rich, ever submitted either a column length piece or a letter to the editor and had it printed? Where so, why are you hiding behind other names? Are you affraid to come out into the open?
If you have not had anything printed, why don't you come up with a topic and some supporting facts? It's easy to take pot shots at Jon and some of the others who have perspectives not formed as "Neo-cons." Remember "Neo-con" has a new meaning. Neo-conned by the new Republican Party Leadership and the likes of Karl Rove. I'm from the old school of conservatives, the ones schooled by the likes of Wm. F. Buckley, Jr. and Mister Conservative, Barry Goldwater. Neo-cons are counterfeits in our books.
And when John McCain, version 2.0, the reincarnation of version 1.0 that had learned to say what the Neo-cons wanted to hear, picked Sarah Palin as a running mate, even voting for Ralph Nader would have made more sense. So voting for Obama was easy. I read his books, saw a moderate underneath the exterior, and cast my lot with Barack. I also read John's book again. I found a nerr-do-well, trying hard to make it up to his daddy and granddaddy. Then when he said he knew how to win the war in Afghanistan but would not give even the smallest hint, I smelled version 2.0, the fraud.
Let's build the dang fense around McCain and Kyl.
EmperorSmith posted at 12:54 pm on Fri, Dec 31, 2010.
Strategic Tactical, I thought is STratigic. Have not read the treaty.
EmperorSmith posted at 12:57 pm on Fri, Dec 31, 2010.
Dale are you for open borders? do you like meth, coke, black tar, coming across the border by ruthless criminals who have lost all there humanity?
EmperorSmith posted at 1:09 pm on Fri, Dec 31, 2010.
I feel honored by your service Dale, My First name is Richard..
EmperorSmith posted at 1:16 pm on Fri, Dec 31, 2010.
I think you are full of it about working on nukes, want to meet face to face?
EmperorSmith posted at 1:17 pm on Fri, Dec 31, 2010.
go pick some lettuce I will call that bluff
Dale Whiting posted at 8:35 pm on Fri, Dec 31, 2010.
Name the date, time and place.
I was trained in both 1) Explosive Ordnance Disposal [the bomb squad] [including disposal of nuclear weapons-with access to Critical Nuclear Weapons Design Information, and 2) Special Weapons Maintenance, the acronym for storage, maintenance, and modification with upgrades of tactical nuclear weapons. I knew very well every Army nuc system from the 8" howitzer shell to the Lance Missile system. I was familiar with all Navy and Air Force weapons systems, too.
Even when I drove my Czec defectee Private to the Federal Courthouse to take his oath of citizenship, I was on call for whatever. I carried one of the very first pagers so that I could be contacted 24-7.
I worked on nucs when not engaged in giving support to the US Secret Service and State Departments or responding in the local community to improvised explosive devises [IED's]. Should I bring a copy of my service record? Can't tell you any details. They'd have to shoot you!
When I say regarding our current post 9-11 situation, Time's Square, the Underware Bomber, the Shoe Bomber, etc. that we have nothing to fear but fear itself and that we have over-reacted out of fear to 9-11, I am rendering an expert opinion. I been there, I done that! It was a real rush.
EmperorSmith posted at 12:53 pm on Sat, Jan 1, 2011.
I'm not familiar with the crops. you mentioned west lettuce fields.
Dale Whiting posted at 8:44 pm on Sat, Jan 1, 2011.
Much of the spring lettuce crop grown in our region comes from fields along the Gila/Salt River drainage west of Phoenix and extending towards Yuma. I know a man whose livelihood was hiring and supervision the workforce needed by these farmers to bring their crops in. His laborers [probably illegals - but no one cared 20 years ago when I knew him] would pick the heads, then he and his packing crews would ice the heads down in crates for shipping. If I recall correctly, this kept him busy from about April through June.
But before the heads are picked and iced for shipping, while the crop is growing, the crop needs to be thinned and weeds hoed. Want to see if we legals can lend a hand? It's sheer hypocracy to verbally throw stones at illegals who hoe and pick our crops and yet not do that labor ourselves. Bill Buckley would have a field day [picking lettuce perhaps] pointing out this inconsistency.
I cannot get Slabside to commit to joining with me on this adventure.
Dale Whiting posted at 8:45 pm on Sat, Jan 1, 2011.
Switch "supervising" for "supervision." Typing too fast again!
leonardclark posted at 9:26 pm on Sat, Jan 1, 2011.
Hello, we are with the Jon Kyl recall campaign. We are now officially registered with the Arizona Secretary of State http://ftp.azsos.gov/election/2012/General/Initiatives.htm
U.S. Senator Jon Kyl has signed a recall statement on file with the Arizona Secretary of State. We are trying to let people know that we do not have to accept corrupt and heartless politicians such as U.S. Senator Jon Kyl, whether Democrat, Republican or any political party.
I myself am neither a Democrat or Republican. I happen to be a member of the Green party but the recall counts for everyone not just the two major political parties. I believe that healthcare for emegency responders should not be held hostage over politics especially in the shameful and disgraceful way this corrupt senator Kyl has done. The rumor is he wants to retire early, well we are here to help him retire a little early and make an example of what happens to corrupt politicians like Kyl who give a Arizona a black eye especially when it comes to playing politics with medical care for our emergency responders of 9/11. Shame on Jon Kyl ! Please help us recall him ! Please call us if you have any questions at: 623-329-0284 our webpage is: leonardclark.net
Leonard Clark chair of recall
Persian Gulf/ Iraq Vet
William S. Crum treasurer of recall
Vietnam Vet
12-31-10