Shame on you, John Kyl, for your recent comments chiding our president for showing concern for the plight of the 300-plus million Americans who are NOT millionaires or billionaires, and more than likely never will be.
The moxy and gall it took to say: “Listen to me, because I speak for the few, for the 5 million millionaires in America who have done phenomenally well over the past 30 years of “trickle-up” economics while most of the rest of you have watched your wages stagnate, your health costs skyrocket, and your pensions and IRA’s wiped out by reckless bankers and Wall Street gamblers.”
The audacity it took to say: “Stop picking on these poor wealthy folks before they develop complexes. Sure a bunch of them can thank rich parents and grandparents for where they are today, but probably the majority of them worked hard and deserve every penny they’ve earned.”
The coldheartedness it shows when you dare to defend the folly of the Republican economic system that puts profit before humanity and the desires of the few before the needs of the many!
Any reading of official government statistics, whether the Congressional Budget Office or the Bureau of Labor Statistics, shows unequivocally that our economy has historically grown faster and created many more jobs when the top tax rate is MUCH higher.
How can so many Americans wear blinders to these facts?
It’s still called “supply and demand.” When the middle class becomes the focus of BOTH PARTIES, demand will explode and jobs will be created to increase supply!
Rod Livdahl
Mesa
Arizona Willie posted at 12:15 pm on Sat, Jul 28, 2012.
Conservatives like to claim that people on welfare won't work because they get too much money and don't need to.
But the tax cuts for the wealthy have the same effect.
When taxes on the ultra-rich were much higher they had incentive to take the money they had left and start another company or expand their businesses they owned already.
After all the years of post-Reagan tax cuts for the wealthy, they have so much money that they have no incentive to expand or start another business.
They are sitting on piles of money already so why bother?
Trickle down is what happens when a dog visits a tree.
A rising tide floats ALL boats. When the common man has money to spend then all businesses do well.
Dale Whiting posted at 4:04 pm on Sat, Jul 28, 2012.
Rod, Willie,
There was a time when "Made in the USA" meant something. In 1980 I recall listening to Murrey Wiedenbaum lecture his class on "Trickle Down" economics, the theory conservatives no longer cite to but which still underlies their rhetoric. The notion was that extra money in the hands of the entrapeneur would do more good for the US economy than sending that money to "big government" which Reagan called "the problem." And at that time, it might have been true. No entrapeneur would risk investing capital in China or South America or Vietnam where it could easily be taken away by "nationalizing," the practice of foreign governments taking over the means of production.
But thanks to Reagan, the Iron Curtain has fallen, and we no longer face a cold war. Rather we have started several hot wars of our own. And with labor so cheap overseas, and nationalization not likely, that money still trickles down to float other boats, but the boat floated are not in the "USA."
So don't knock "Trickle Down." Understand why it works differently today than it did 30 years ago. And try to explain to those neo-conservatives why they are being taken advantage of by the 1% whose boats can and do float overseas.
Leon Ceniceros posted at 6:25 pm on Sat, Jul 28, 2012.
SORRY...BUT THE 300 MILLION PLUS...DON'T CREATE JOBS....THE 1%-ERS ARE THE ONES WHO HAVE THE MONEY TO INVEST, TO START A COMPANY WHICH PAYS THE WAGES FOR THE OTHER ..............99%.
SO PUT AWAY YOUR .....COMMIE-CHINA CHAIRMAN MAO'S ...."LITTLE RED BOOK"............ON SOCIALISM AND WEALTH RE-DISTRIBUTION.
WE LIVE IN A CAPITALIST SOCIETY.....THE SAME CAPITALIST SOCIETY THAT OUR FOUNDING FATHERS ESPOUSED WHEN THEY WROTE THE DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE...........THE UNITED STATES CONSTITUTION AND THE BILL OF RIGHTS....AND MADE........"IN GOD WE TRUST"....THE MOTTO OF THE UNITED STATES.
SO IF YOU LIBERALS....YOU PROGRESSIVES...YOU SOCIALISTS AND COMMUNISTS AND DEMOCRATS WANT TO LIVE IN A COUNTRY WHERE EVERYBODY HAS THE SAME MONEY IN THE BANK, PAYS THE SAME TAXES AND EARNS THE SAME PAYCHECK.......................MOVE TO CUBA.
wdgnas posted at 6:04 am on Sun, Jul 29, 2012.
SORRY...BUT THE 300 MILLION PLUS...DON'T CREATE JOBS....THE 1%-ERS ARE THE ONES WHO HAVE THE MONEY TO INVEST, TO START A COMPANY WHICH PAYS THE WAGES FOR THE OTHER ..............99%.
leon, nice try. WHERE ARE THE JOBS. jobs that are created are not created in this country. because we have become a service oriented society with the consumer responsible for 70% of the gdp, the 99% that buy groceries, gasoline for the vehicles and school supplies are sustaining current jobs. yes even you leon, are sustaining current jobs.
Arizona Willie posted at 7:49 am on Sun, Jul 29, 2012.
Dale, it's true that " trickle down " has trickled on workers in other countries. Actually more like a full fledged flood than a trickle.
However, the American people were told that " trickle down " would create jobs HERE.
It's AMERICAN taxes that the wealthy are not paying ... not CHINESE taxes.
It's AMERICAN workers who have to make up the shortfall for taxes the wealthy DON'T pay ... not the Chinese workers.
It's American dollars that the wealthy are saving not renminbi.
Centrist posted at 8:33 am on Sun, Jul 29, 2012.
Leon reallt doesn't get it, does he?
fae4now posted at 10:25 am on Sun, Jul 29, 2012.
No, he doesn't.
Many have tried to make even a simple point with him, including myself.
Do yourself a favor: when you see his MEAN SPIRITED....RUDE....NAME CALLING....DISRESPECTFUL....PERVERTED....MISGUIDED NASTINESS.....just ignore it and be thankful you don't live next door to this creep.
Why would anyone willingly subject themselves to the likes of him?
fae4now posted at 10:29 am on Sun, Jul 29, 2012.
Back to the letter, did Kyl actually say these things? I noticed the comments in quotation marks. I'm No fan of him but I'm still shocked.[sneaky]
chatmandu002 posted at 10:57 am on Sun, Jul 29, 2012.
Rod,
Thank goodness you don't speak for the people on the economy. It takes the rich to build the business to hire the middle class to work that allows them the money to increase the demand. The middle class can't demand anything without the money in their pockets. Unless you are a redistributive liberal democrat that believes that the government creates jobs that will give all the middle class money to buy more things. We've tried that for over 3 1/2 years now and it doesn't work.
Lighten the heavy foot of taxes and regulations on the throat of business and watch what happens. Give private business a chance not another kick in the face. Forget the phony class war struggle.
Arizona Willie posted at 10:59 am on Sun, Jul 29, 2012.
I don't know if Kyl said these things verbatim or if Rod was improperly paraphrasing him.
It would be nice if Rod provided a link to a source for his quotes.
However, in general, the attitude is indeed the attitude of Republican politicians.
Cerulean posted at 1:09 pm on Sun, Jul 29, 2012.
Chatman, It does not matter who or how a job is created, money is “redistributive”. A rich man, a poor man, government or corporation, money is “redistributive”. That is the purpose of money! If all the money ends up in the hands of only a few people then you have ‘stagnation’. To have a healthy economy, money must flow from one area to another freely.
I hope that mnjcpa has read this column. mnjcpa the small business person cannot survive on the scraps of only the wealthy. The small business needs a strong middle class to sustain a small business.
Very good letter Mr. Livdahl [thumbup]
Arizona Willie posted at 4:00 pm on Sun, Jul 29, 2012.
Cerulean, I have decided that trying to discuss anything with mnjcpa is a total waste of time.
He is an ideologue.
He has a mind like a mouse trap, only the trap has sprung shut and rusted closed.
chatmandu002 posted at 4:27 pm on Sun, Jul 29, 2012.
Cerulean,
Although your argument about redistribution of money by government is what you believe will make the economy work, it is the creation of capital from private investment and work that will drive the economy. The government printing more money doesn't work.
Also you never address the heavy tax and regulatory burden put on business by the government. I say, give free market enterprise a chance to work. .
Arizona Willie posted at 5:54 pm on Sun, Jul 29, 2012.
chatmandu002 --- your precious free market enterprise had it's chance and that is what resulted in the financial meltdown as virtually all regulations were removed from Wall Street.
Capitalism is good.
Unregulated capitalism is TERRIBLE.
chuckles3 posted at 7:46 am on Mon, Jul 30, 2012.
sigh, ok. Let's take the approximately 1.5 Million people who make $250,000 or more in a year. Let's do a one time tax for each of them for a whopping $250,000, just to teach them a lesson for being so successful.. Our take would be $375 billion. Now, let's take defense spending to zero and make all you military haters happy. Thats another $700 billion.
Hey guess what? We STILL do not have enough to cover just ONE YEAR of Mr. Obama's deficit. We need another $100 billion or so.
VofReason posted at 2:12 pm on Mon, Jul 30, 2012.
"It's AMERICAN workers who have to make up the shortfall for taxes the wealthy DON'T pay ... " This is poinient. I think most people would then ask why the Government wouldn't then spend less to bring into line Revenue and Expense. I know this doesn't make sense to most liberals who think that the Government cannot spend one thin dime less unless it is in Defense of the Country, but it has worked for centuries in Family Finances. Just sayin'
Arizona Willie posted at 3:36 pm on Mon, Jul 30, 2012.
VofReason, strange you should cite family finances.
Income taxes are the equivalent of a family's income, our national family.
Our national family is burdened with the tremendous debt of two unfunded wars and an unfunded Medicare benefit program.
In family finances when you have a large debt families INCREASE their income in order to pay on their debt.
They don't reduce their income and expect the debt to magically go away.
In order to increase income they often take on a second or third job – – – they don't work less and expect to magically make more money.
So why do Republicans want tax cuts when the nation has so much debt?
Why do Republicans hate America?
Why do Republicans want America to go bankrupt?
If Republicans didn't want America to go bankrupt, they would be trying to put through a surcharge on income taxes to pay off the debt – – – instead of demanding tax cuts which just put the nation further in debt.
Republicans are trying to bankrupt America.
Republicans – – – the party of BORROW AND SPEND.
Rodini posted at 8:31 pm on Wed, Aug 1, 2012.
YES, I paraphrased....but it pretty succinctly summed up the basic point Sen. Kyl made...and that was we shouldn't be worrying about what's best for the middle class, it's the (LOL) "job creators" who should continue getting all our attention!
They've been saying that for 30 plus years, same old song and dance, yet the story ends the same each time....few jobs are created, huge annual deficits, a massive increase in the national debt, middle class wages suffer, the poor increase and the rich get richer. America wake up and take off your rose colored glasses and read non-partisan facts! PLEASE!!
VofReason posted at 1:34 pm on Thu, Aug 2, 2012.
Thank you Willie for proving my point. Liberals belive that the only thing that has driven the deficit spending of the Obama administration is those things intiated under Bush. Nothing that has been intiated in the last 3.5 years. And, that every dollar that is currently being spent by the Fed (outside of Bush intiated) is good spend and not a dollar can be reduced. That is a high degree of disbelief of reality. Got to give it to you, that takes dedication. I am pretty sure if it was my family financing, I would be looking a little harder at the expenditures before I ran out to get that second or third job.
Arizona Willie posted at 7:34 am on Fri, Aug 3, 2012.
VofReason, I don't think any liberal every said that the debt was comprised ONLY of Bush's Follies.
It is more or less irrelevant HOW the debt was created and WHO created HOW MUCH of it.
The fact is THE DEBT EXISTS.
The question is HOW ARE WE GOING TO PAY IT OFF?
or
ARE WE GOING TO DEFAULT AND DECLARE NATIONAL BANKRUPTCY?
Cut spending == the war cry of the right wing == sounds good but the fact is that if every singly penny of excess spending was eliminated it wouldn't pay down one cent of the existing debt.
Cutting spending only helps ( perhaps ) to keep the debt from growing much larger.
In order to pay down the debt we have to come up with more income which is DEDICATED to paying on the debt.
In the past we had Income Tax surcharges when we had wars so that we didn't get into this kind of debt hole.
But, conservatives were unwilling to pay up one penny of taxes to get what they wanted so they borrowed the money ( and so has Obama because he had no choice since there was no new income ).
But nobody wants to pay anything more in order to pay on the debt.
The interest on that debt will drive the country into bankruptcy.
As well as more accumulated debt as all the tax cuts have the country in a situation where there isn't enough income to pay current expenses even, let alone pay on the current debt.
So the government is borrowing one out of every three dollars it spends.
That is NEW debt on top of the old debt from Bush's Follies.
So regardless of whether the debt came from Bush's Follies or Obama's Stimulus -- the debt exists.
Insisting on more tax cuts just compounds the problem.
There is NO possible way to eliminate the debt by cutting spending.
THAT is a fiscal impossibility.
There MUST be revenue enhancements in some form that is DEDICATED to paying on the debt or it will just keep growing and growing.
It's like paying one credit card with another credit card if we don't stop cutting taxes and have a surcharge or some other form of dedicated revenue.
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