Mr. Butcher’s assault on Mr. McClellan, an advocate of the one-cent sales tax increase, is a collection of irrelevancies masquerading as a logical presentation against the sales tax increase. Of course the Arizona Education Association and many others support an increase in public school funding. That’s hardly a lethal argument. Does the NRA support various gun laws? Wow, that’s shocking!
Arizona’s per-pupil expenditures are increasing? Will that move us from near the bottom of the US per-pupil expenditure charts? That number does not necessarily always correlate directly with academic success, but were I the owner of a growing software company, would my employees be thrilled with our state legislators’ disinterest in education?
And finally the dusty, old voucher program argument. Just what standards are used to measure the success of voucher-supported schools? The same as those of public schools? Even I could run a fantastic school if every troubled or low-achieving student could be whisked off back to a public school.
Mr. Butcher needs to study critical analysis. Does the Goldwater Institute offer a course in that?
Paul Ingle
Mesa
Arizona Willie posted at 7:22 am on Fri, Jul 6, 2012.
Facts and logic are of NO interest to rabid drooling right wing knuckle draggers.
They want the benefits of living in this country but they don't want to pay for anything.
They call taxes " theft ".
They are the epitomy of self-centeredness.
As they have stated many times, their purpose is to starve government out of existence. Except, of course, for defense where there is no such thing as spending enough.
They don't want good public education. If people learn to think for themselves instead of considering Rush Limbaugh the second coming of Christ, they will quickly see through the right wing agenda.
The strange thing is the tea-party and affiliates are populated with $10 / hour wonders who barely pass a GED test but they are sure that voting Republican will make them wealthy -- somehow -- someday.
In some alternate universe, maybe.
The average Republican voter just can't get it through their head that the Republican politicians they elect are NOT serving them. They are the puppets of the very rich.
Republicans enacted the biggest tax increase in history when they took away the deduction for all interest except your mortgage.
And that tax increase fell squarely upon the middle class. It didn't bother the wealthy at all.
But they refuse to ask the super wealthy to pay even a couple of percent more.
But, oh yeah, they ( Republican politicians ) claim to be against illegals and abortion -- even though they have done NOTHING about either issue all during Bush the Lesser's two terms.
The only thing the Republican party REALLY cares about is more tax cuts for the rich.
Leon Ceniceros posted at 8:59 am on Fri, Jul 6, 2012.
Our "willie" (still cracks me up.....lol) is now doing the same thing as the other Liberal, Progressive, Democrat and Socialist Wanna-Be's = attacking the "$10/ wonders who barely pass(ed) a GED test....".
WHAT HAPPENED TO ALL THAT DEMOCRAT "TOUCHIE-FEELIE...CAN'T WE ALL JUST GET ALONG....CIVIL DISCOURSE THAT....O-BLAME-O AND THE DEMOCRATS WERE ALL CRYING LAST YEAR.........NOW IT'S BACK TO THE ....MSNBC LARRY ODONNELL/RACHEL MADDOW...."ATTACK DOG" VITRIOL.
WHY SHOULD ARIZONA'S HARD WORKING TAX PAYERS ANT-EE UP ANOTHER 1% OF EVERY SINGLE ITEM THEY BUY (DIAPERS, MEDICINE, CARS, WASHING MACHINES, SCHOOL BOOKS AND SUPPLIES.......GROCERIES EVEN.........FOR A FAILED ...EDUCATIONAL SYSTEM WHERE SUPERINTENDENTS RETIRE WITH A....... $200,000.00 A YEAR PENSION FOR THE NEXT 20 YEARS.
TEACHERS WHO SPEND THE SCHOOL DAY "MENTORING" INSTEAD OF TEACHING A SUBJECT.
TEACHERS WHO HELP THEIR "HISPANIC/LA RAZA" STUDENTS LEARN ABOUT MARXISM, SOCIALISM, FIDEL CASTRO'S BUDDY, CHE GUEVARA AND LEARN TO NOT LOVE AMERICA...BUT HATE WHITE SOCIETY AND CAPITALISM.
WHY SHOULD ARIZONA TAX PAYERS WHO DON'T HAVE CHILDREN HAVE TO PAY AN EXTRA 1% TAX ON EVERY SINGLE THING THAT THEY BUY....FOR A FAILED EDUCATIONAL SYSTEM ........INCLUDING....INCLUDING....PAYING $7,670.00 PER ILLEGAL ALIEN STUDENT PER YEAR FROM MEXICO AND POINTS SOUTH HAVE HAVE COME INTO THIS COUNTRY ILLEGALLY AND WHO OBAMA AND THE DEMOCRATS REFUSE TO DEPORT
$7,670.00 PER ILLEGAL ALIEN STUDENT PER YEAR FROM KINDERGARTEN TO THE 12TH GRADE COSTS THE ARIZONA TAX PAYER = $99,710.00...PER ILLEGAL ALIEN STUDENT AND THERE ARE 20,000 - 30,000 IN ARIZONA RIGHT NOW.
NO TO THE .........1% SALES TAX ON EVERTHING THAT ARIZONIANS BUY.
NO TO THE .........20,000 - 30,000....ILLEGAL ALIEN STUDENTS FROM MEXICO AND POINTS SOUTH.
NO TO THE .........ARIZONA TEACHERS UNION AND THE "CADILLAC PENSIONS" AND "CAVIAR" HEALTH AND RETIREMENT BENEFITS FOR TEACHERS WHO ONLY TEACH (IF YOU CAN CALL WHAT THEY DO "TEACHING"............FOR 9 MONTHS OUT OF THE YEAR.
sockratties posted at 9:09 am on Fri, Jul 6, 2012.
california leon is in top form today… If he had paid attention to something other than willies in school he would know that his comment is about being a closet immigrant rather than education. Kind of like the kidnapper always getting in on the search for the victim.
Arizona Willie posted at 9:47 am on Fri, Jul 6, 2012.
Thank you Leon, your response illustrated my point beautifully.
Engaged Voter posted at 9:50 am on Fri, Jul 6, 2012.
Leon, son of Eleazar (still cracks me up...lol).
How's that ad hominem working out for ya? ;)
chatmandu002 posted at 11:08 am on Fri, Jul 6, 2012.
Paul,
Increase funding on education hasn't improved education results. Funding for education should continue through the legislature. The voter initiative is a convoluted process that will hurt future education funding. Many of the voter initiatives have not worked out like they were presented.
mrconservative posted at 11:08 am on Fri, Jul 6, 2012.
Leon has a good point. Leave him alone, Willie and EV.
CSalafia posted at 11:38 am on Fri, Jul 6, 2012.
No, Mr.C, he really doesn't have a point.
Mike McClellan posted at 12:50 pm on Fri, Jul 6, 2012.
chatmandu's comment about "increased funding" would be true . . . except in the last three years, Arizona has decreased K-12 funding by almost $3 billion.
So if indeed there's increased funding, it's an increase over a decrease.
We're still a net behind the funding from 2008. You can look it up.
chuckles3 posted at 1:18 pm on Fri, Jul 6, 2012.
Facts and logic are of NO interest to rabid drooling right wing knuckle draggers.
They want the benefits of living in this country but they don't want to pay for anything.
They call taxes " theft ".
They are the epitomy of self-centeredness.
Hmm, sounds like the OWS idiots and the left.....only tax the 'rich', not me. The benefits of the country were never meant to include one half of the country paying for the other half...PERIOD. When we can stop doing that, AND stop raging deficit spending, I will stop advocating for better use of my tax dollars.
And as a "knuckles dragger", I am happy to compare my education and SAT/ACT scores with you. I am sure I would have some childish name for you as well after our comparison.
chuckles3 posted at 1:29 pm on Fri, Jul 6, 2012.
Hi Mike:
"o if indeed there's increased funding, it's an increase over a decrease.
We're still a net behind the funding from 2008. You can look it up."
But, but.....AIMS scores are UP? You can look THAT up too.
http://azstarnet.com/news/local/education/article_bee710f0-8ec7-5ad0-926c-65b74a04842c.html
How can that be?
Engaged Voter posted at 1:41 pm on Fri, Jul 6, 2012.
mrconservative - you are horribly confused.
Leon's semi-literate screaming in ALL CAPS, and his continued use of personal insults, are what people resort to when they DON'T have any good points.
If Leon had a good point, he wouldn't have to rant, rave and throw a tantrum like a 5 year old.
Engaged Voter posted at 1:45 pm on Fri, Jul 6, 2012.
"The benefits of the country were never meant to include one half of the country paying for the other half...PERIOD. "
AMEN! Now spread this message to every church, mosque, and synagogue, temple. etc. that is robbing us taxpayers by not paying their fair share of property taxes.
They use the infrastructure, but don't want to help pay for it.
Which sounds hauntingly familiar...
Arizona Willie posted at 3:07 pm on Fri, Jul 6, 2012.
chuckles3, you may well have gone to school longer than I did. I went to college at night for 3 years with Industrial Relations my major. Then one year I found out I made more money than my Collective Bargaining Professor who was head of Industrial Relations at the local Ford plant.
Figured I was wasting my time and money, so I quit.
I don't believe we had ACT back then ... don't remember it. I did have a SAT test but don't remember the score, but I was accepted at Notre Dame. Stupid kid that I was I decided I was tired of school and joined the Navy. A lot of that was because my proud Dad had taken me to a football game at Notre Dame and I like to froze my azz off and I didn't want any more to do with South Bend.
That was 50 years ago. But I do remember that in my sophomore year of high school they said my IQ was 148.
A few years ago there was a 2 hour show on TV that was supposed to test your IQ.
I only got 138 then. I'm sure that TV test isn't as good as the regular one. But I didn't feel too badly about losing 10 points over 50 years.
I'm sure you can easily come up with some names for me. Go ahead. I grew up a skinny kid with big ears and a nerd so I've been called things all my life. [smile]
I got my evens when I retired at 54.
Mike McClellan posted at 3:57 pm on Fri, Jul 6, 2012.
Yep, chuckles, scores are up . . . this past year. But look at two things: One is how the pass score has been lowered by the State Department of Education (under now-AG Republican Tom Horne) and look at the pattern of the last four years. It's uneven.
But thanks for making the argument that Arizona school teachers are able to do more with less. That's what they've said, but it's wearing on them. Better look at teacher turnover, too. Mesa School district lost 200 teachers this year alone.
Arizona Willie posted at 5:11 pm on Fri, Jul 6, 2012.
Mr. McClellan, the righties have made it clear that they consider paying teachers $30K - $40K / year " throwing money at the problem ".
They also resent the fact that teachers can get a pension that they call " paid by the taxpayers " as though each of them writes a check every month for every teachers pension. They bitterly resent pensions.
Of course, their own pensions are fully justified and they deserve every penny. But, as everyone knows ( according to right wingers ) public employees are leaches who have never done a days work and they just live off the taxpayer.
Leon Ceniceros posted at 7:38 pm on Fri, Jul 6, 2012.
WELL, I AM GLAD TO SEE THAT SOMEONE HAD AN EPIPHANY.....AND OF ALL PEOPLE IT WAS ....."little willie".
YES, TO QUOTE "little willie"....."But, as everyone knows....public employees are leachers who have never done a days work and they just live off the taxpayer".
NOW, I FOR ONE WOULD CALL THEM "leachers".....ALTHOUGH WE HAVE SEEN MANY MORE TEACHERS BEING BROUGHT BEFORE THE BAR OF JUSTICE FOR ....HAVING SEX WITH UNDER-AGE STUDENTS....CHILD MOLESTATION....CHILD ABUSE....CHILD PORNOGRAPHY AND OTHER SEX CRIMES.....AS OF LATE (SEEMS TO BE ONE A WEEK LATELY).
NOW THAT LEACHERS HAVE A 3 MONTH BREAK....(AND OUR CHILDREN DO TOO....THANK GAWD).....WE SHOULDN'T BE SEEING ANY MORE OF THESE "SEX CRIME MUG SHOT" PHOTOS HIGHLIGHTED ON OUR LOCAL TV STATION NEWS REPORTS....WE CAN EAT OUR MEAL WITH HEARING OF THESE DISGUSTING, FILTHY "EDUCATION-RELATED" SEX-CRIMINALS FLASHED ACROSS OUR TV SCREENS.
sockratties posted at 11:25 am on Sat, Jul 7, 2012.
california leon… your interests always lean toward the prurient aspects of topics. Trying to tag teachers with such a label is offensive, even for you. Who would you choose to teach our kids, the priesthood?
Our teachers are paid about half of what they could make in private industry with their required minimum bachelor’s degree. I know several who work second jobs so they can afford to work in their chosen profession. These are dedicated people who are trampled by bureaucracy, politics and a lack of respect by uninformed people like yourself looking for a scapegoat.
When is the last time, if there ever was one, that you did something that contributed to the overall good of the community? Spreading hate and despair as in your SCREAMING posts doesn’t count.
JMJ posted at 5:57 pm on Sun, Jul 8, 2012.
Leon: You are still a Froot Loop. You make things up, dude. What are you smoking?
VofReason posted at 12:49 pm on Tue, Jul 10, 2012.
Good point, they should have much less administration (who obviously add alot to the learning in the classroom) and actually pay more money to the teachers. Of course, they could do that today without a tax increase. Think they will or just ask for more money every couple years and watch it disappear into more superintendants and assistants to head of pencil sharpening. I think old AZ willie had a freudian slip, he made a bunch more money then the person taching him. Perhaps that says something about unions, the undereducated make well more then the educated- hmmmm? And retired at 54, not bad. Sounds like a good business model, pay full salaries to a bunch of people who no longer bring a benefit to your company. Yup, definitly how to run a business.