Cardon: 'Real world' solutions needed to address illegal immigration
Wil Cardon
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Mike McClellan posted at 6:56 pm on Tue, Dec 6, 2011.
Do we have a drug smuggling problem coming from Mexico? Of course.
Can we do more? Certainly.
But Cardon's taken the old shibboleth of "porous borders" and is trying to make a campaign out of it.
He writes, "Stop the steady flow of illegal immigrants into our state. Instead, President Obama, Holder and the Administration have spent time, energy and countless legal resources trying to stop SB 1070 itself, as opposed to stopping the traffic of illegal immigrants into Arizona."
In fact, the number of illegal immigrants entering the Tucson sector has dropped dramatically, in part due to the economy, in part due to better border enforcement from the Obama administration.
Cardon creates a straw man with the comment I quoted; is his campaign simply going to be a rehash of the tired Pearce/Republican talking points?
commonsenseaintcommon posted at 7:12 pm on Tue, Dec 6, 2011.
Will,
You make good points in eveything excpet the guns thing. The cartels are equipped with fully automatic machine guns that can't come from the U.S. They have RPGs and hand granades. Those military quality weapons are supplied by thieves in the Mexican miltary or from the militaries of other Latin American countries. The Obama admistration is still trying to make Fast and Furious go away. Many of the firearmes dealers questioned tha sales of the rifles but the feds told them they should look the other way and that everytthing was under control. We know how that worked out. Don't even think about curtailing my 2nd Ammenment rights because the government of Mexico can't control their country.
Dale Whiting posted at 7:27 pm on Tue, Dec 6, 2011.
Wil,
The border with Mexico is hardly the bigest problem needing a solution. But I agree, we need to address the biggest problems first. So find another theme. Don't blame Democrats. That's a cheap shot guaranteed to offend none of your Neo-con constituents. Try running for Flake's spot, not Kyl's.
abimopectore posted at 8:11 pm on Tue, Dec 6, 2011.
Your single-theme approach to your campaign has convinced me that you're not running on anything except the same fear-based politics that has characterized many Arizonan politicians. Unless you bring a better analysis of what truly needs to be done instead of proposing things that are NEVER going to be done, you have no chance of beating Rep. Flake.
Rich posted at 8:12 pm on Tue, Dec 6, 2011.
If you want to be my Senator, read a book. It's called "Paso Por Aqui" and it's by Eugene Manlove Rhodes. If Mike confused you a bit read " Now Say Shibboleth" by the same author.
samkat posted at 9:05 pm on Tue, Dec 6, 2011.
Wil: I use the number of illegals standing on the street corners as my measure of DHS success and I am not seeing a drop so I doubt the statistics published by the Obama administration. Just today, they stopped an illegal in a carload of them north of Phoenix. This guy has jumped the border a minimum of 14 times and apparently has never served any jail time for repeated crossings. By the way, they had just deported him a week ago. Now how effective has the border been secured with this kind of track record?
Now, as to strengthening E-Verify, I agree 110%. Obama could issue an executive order expanding E-Verify nationwide just as he has his defacto amnesty program. If I was "King for a Day" I would expand the data base to link IRS, Social Security and Health and Human Services to nail illegals at every turn. No jobs and no social services will provide a great incentive to self deport. The ones who choose to stay will be easier to identify and process for deportation. As an incentive for the ones who leave voluntarily, allow them to apply for admission without the 10 year penalty provided they have not been using fraudulent state and federal official documents to include stolen identities.
As for the fear mongers who scream family separation, they do have the option of leaving as a family unit. These same individuals seem to overlook the fact that our military members have involuntary separations everyday. I have much more empathy for them than the illegals since my family and I had numerous separations during my 20 plus years of service. Yes Dale, I suppose this makes me a neo-con but I consider that preferable to being a pacifist. :-)
Rich posted at 9:46 pm on Tue, Dec 6, 2011.
""King for a Day" I would expand the data base to link IRS, Social Security and Health and Human Services to nail illegals at every turn." You'd have to be a 'King' " because it's mandatory use would be an abridgment of the fourth amendment. And I'm not a real big supporter of monarchy and dictatorship. I sort of like the Constitution, sort of wish I could elect people to follow it rather than the party line.
Of course, being a pacifist, I don't think very many political philosophies are superior to it, certainly not neo-con. I do think we'd be a whole lot better off today had we accepted the whole idea of pacifism a couple millennia ago. And now that push is getting to shove, with everybody and his mother's vice premier developing a nuclear weapon, It'd probably be a good time to reexamine your position on that.
Masterrogue666 posted at 10:03 pm on Tue, Dec 6, 2011.
Wil: I couldn't agree more. You touched on points that are factual, and can be proven, if one wishes to look for the truth.
Has the flood decreased? Yes, for many reasons. However, if nothing is down with the border, once our economy grows strong again, then the flood of INVADING FOREIGN NATIONALS will again pour over our borders once again.
I don't see how "Paso Por Aqui" has any relavance here. Talk about a "straw man" argument! If you wish to help a family in need, feel free to donate YOUR MONEY to what ever charity or organization you wish. Me, I'm tired of any part of the tax dollars I pay going to assist CRIMINALS that are not even citizens of the USA!
As samkat stated, the border is NOT SECURE! Criminals enter as it pleases them. The "Chandler Rapist" was deported several times too. Where's the help for those children? Where's there justice? The Federal government failed them as it continues to fail us because ONE MAN decided to go against the will of the MAJORITY of US citizens. Remember that come election day, ANY ELECTION DAY.....
stevo1 posted at 5:16 am on Wed, Dec 7, 2011.
When did we lose our common sense? Our Government, has allowed the invasion of 30 million criminals in direct violation of Article IV, Section IV of our Constitution. they force American tax payers to pay Billions to provide Welfare, Prison cells, Educate the invaders children, free medical care,massive document fraud, & are destroying our schools, hospitals, communities, culture while Robbing, Raping, Killing & Assaulting American Citizens WE ARE BEING INVADED! WAKE UP PEOPLE!
An education is a good thing.
step #1 http://bit.ly/oBuTUd
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-NVT7lyNRZQ&feature=player_embedded
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tsH8xvjTAlo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Btj6IeOFkis&feature=player_embedded
http://immigrationcounters.com/
http://ojjpac.org/memorial.asp
http://www.immigrationshumancost.org/
http://www.newswithviews.com/Wooldridge/frosty580.htm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=muw22wTePqQ
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/07/02/immigration-costs-fair-amnesty-educations-costs-reform/
http://www.rense.com/general81/dtli.htm
http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=41045
http://www.cairco.org/econ/econ.html
http://www.diggersrealm.com/mt/archives/003335.html
Every Non-representative including obama and holder are not upholding the oath of office! they swore to defend the Constitution! If these clowns were to do their job, this would all be a Moot point!
Anchors and their criminal parents go, period, you knew you were breaking the law when you crossed the border.
Next shut down any business hiring illegal labor. Oh and owners go to jail.
any better ideas? lets hear them!
stevo1 posted at 5:18 am on Wed, Dec 7, 2011.
I come for visit, get treated regal,
So I stay, who care I illegal?
I cross border, poor and broke,
Take bus, see employment folk.
Nice man treat me good in there,
Say I need to see welfare.
Welfare say, "You come no more,
We send cash right to your door."
Welfare checks, they make you
wealthy,
Medicaid it keep you healthy!
By and by, I got plenty money,
Thanks to you, American dummy.
Write to friends in motherland,
Tell them come as fast as you can.
They come in rags and Chebby
trucks,
I buy big house with welfare bucks.
They come here, we live together,
More welfare checks, it gets better!
Fourteen families they moving in,
But neighbor's patience wearing thin.
Finally, white guy moves away,
Now I buy his house, and then I say,
"Find more aliens for house to rent."
And in the yard I put a tent.
Send for family (they just trash),
But they, too, draw the welfare cash!
Everything is mucho good,
And soon we own the neighborhood.
We have hobby--it's called breeding,
Welfare pay for baby feeding.
Kids need dentist? Wife need pills?
We get free! We got no bills!
American crazy! He pay all year,
To keep welfare running here.
We think America darn good place!
Too darn good for the white man
race.
If they no like us, they can go,
Got lots of room in Mexico
mnjcpa posted at 9:23 am on Wed, Dec 7, 2011.
Mike - your comment "the number of illegal immigrants entering the Tucson sector has dropped dramatically, in part due to the economy". Not sure where you get these statistics. And Dale - "The border with Mexico is hardly the bigest problem needing a solution". Both of you are taking stands due to your political affiliations.
You're both off. I do a fair amount of business in Tucson and business people there will tell Mike a very different story.
My health insurance premiums went up 30% this year. Illegals come across the border and get medical care for free. There's something wrong with that picture when a tax paying citizen (I guess I'm one of the 50% that actually pay taxes and "privileged") pays for it.
And Dale - while not the whole problem - our country has had systematic failures from liberal policies starting with Waxman's California mandate that pushed millions of illegals in to our system. Last year alone over $47 BILLION dollars were paid in the form of tax credits to non-citizens in to one of the biggest boondoggles in the tax code - the earned income credit.
Close that border solid and redistribute the wasteful spending to non-citizens of this country to small business people and see how quickly our budgets can be balanced.
Will - you're spot on.
Mike McClellan posted at 12:49 pm on Wed, Dec 7, 2011.
mnjcpa, where did I get the statistics? They've been reported all this year.
Today, for example, in the Republic had an article -http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/news/articles/2011/12/06/20111206arrests-mexican-border-continue-drop.html -- that said the number of border apprehensions along the Arizona border is the lowest since the Nixon administration.
And this year is the "first time in decades" that the number of people deported is greater than the number of people arrested.
Now, you can try to argue that this is some kind of fiction propagated by the Obama administration, but what proof do you have of that? Your Tucson businessmen anecdote can be negated by Yuma-area farmers anecdotes, who've had difficulty getting people to work their fields.
Finally, if you think your health insurance rose by 30% (mine rose by 45%, by the way) only because of the cost for illegal immigrants, you're fooling yourself. The rising cost of health insurance is caused by several factors; illegal immigrants are just one small cause.
chatmandu002 posted at 1:06 pm on Wed, Dec 7, 2011.
Simple solutions to complicated problem.
1. Build the wall, build it now.
2. Enforce all the laws all the time.
VofReason posted at 3:26 pm on Wed, Dec 7, 2011.
Some here like to speak in hypotheticals and throw away partisan lines. Drive down any number of streets in Phx metro and see how many day laborers are standing on the street corner. That would indicate they don't have a regular job and likely are not making a living wage. Who pays for their: food, rent, education, healthcare etc? That is right- you. Go into an Emergency room almost anywhere in the valley, who is there? Who pays for that? Likely the Hospitals eat most of that cost and then pass it along to paying customers. Those are real costs and real problems.
Brittanicus posted at 4:53 pm on Wed, Dec 7, 2011.
Unadulterated AMNESTY! Mr. Gingrich!
What about the 20 million plus who have illegally settled here already?
All you have to do is slide across the border in the dead of night, fly into the states and overstay your visa and for that you get rewarded by the Liberal progressives. Immediate free health care, education for their children, by a law forced onto us by the courts. Politicians are stealing your taxes to subsidize illegal aliens.
Read the real costs of illegal immigration, which has been studied extensively by the Heritage Foundation. There are grids, analysis and carefully calculated grafts of federal payout and from the state coffers, which are bleeding $113 Billion dollars a year and rising. Then there is the 46 billion dollars that leave the United States to foreign banks; not re-entering American commerce.
Former Speaker Newt Gingrich would have American taxpayers keep supporting the millions still unlawfully in this country? The question to ask yourself, they already committed an offense against our laws by crossing the borders or being an over-stay visa. Then to obtain a job in the U.S. other than criminal businesses not bothering to verify their hired work verification, they had to use fraudulent Social Security cards, drivers licenses, birth certificates or some other form of ID—isn’t this a FELONY by definition? THEN WHY IS IT NOT A FELONY? IF YOU STOLE SOMEBODIES ID OR SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBER AND GOT CAUGHT, YOU WOULD BE IN JAIL. Study Says Gingrich Amnesty Bigger Than '86 Blanket Amnesty -- Gingrich Seems to Reject 'Attrition through Enforcement', that qualifies as mass amnesty.
The most recent polling finds that Republican voters have elevated Newt Gingrich to presidential frontrunner status. But it is difficult to believe that those supporting him agree with his amnesty plan, or are even aware that his proposal sounds like it would give jobs to around 3.5 million illegal aliens (according to a new Pew Hispanic Center study). Hopefully, Gingrich supporters can persuade him to at least cut 90% out of that.
Another legislator has joined the co-sponsors to enact 'The Legal Workforce Act (H.R.2885) or extensively known as E-Verify. A mandatory law that holds businesses owners accountable, for hiring illegal workers and now only 32 sponsors to go, before it reaches the house floor. Learn more at NumbersUSA or call your Senator or Congressman at 202-224-3121 and giving your name, address to the aid and insist your representative in the Senate-House uphold the law and co-sponsor H.R. 2885.
All you have to do is slide across the border in the dead of night, fly into the states and overstay your visa and for that you get rewarded by the Liberal progressives. Immediate free health care, education for their children, because that the law forced onto us by the courts. Stealing your taxes to subsidize illegal aliens is just astronomical.
Attn: Insist—NO Demand the ‘Keystone’ oil pipeline be constructed from Canada to Texas refineries from the Congress, before China gets a foothold to buy it. It’s Obama and Democrats stopping the project, that will produce 100 thousands job opportunities and makes us less reliant on foreign countries. There would be oil to sell to friendly countries, which could lower our 15 Trillion dollars treasury deficit. Those politicians that don’t comply should be shoveled out of Washington. Too long have we been held hostage by environmentalist lobbyist that is killing this countries economy?
mnjcpa posted at 6:31 pm on Wed, Dec 7, 2011.
Mike - This commenter won't get in a whose right tussle with you. All I know is this.
I'm heavily educated in tax & business which I believe qualifys me to make informed observations. In 1980 - only 20% of the population paid no tax. Today that number is closer to 50%. The top 10% pay 70% of the tax and it's still not enough for liberals. You can quote some trite statistic from the AZ Republic rag, but I can roll out FAR better evidence to the contrary too lengthty for a column.
I deal with working families that start businesses from scratch - and these days if they're lucky - they might be able to turn in to a decent retirement. Heavy emphasis on might. Because that American Dream has all but vanished. And
I've read your comments enough to know you disagree with conservative opinions.
I'm in the trenches every day and see firsthand how liberal policies impact our society. If you would look a little deeper rather than clinging to your beliefs you might be surprised what you would learn.
Mike McClellan posted at 9:59 pm on Wed, Dec 7, 2011.
mnjcpa, you keep changing the subject -- Cardon's column's on illegal immigration.
You now want to talk about taxes -- and then misstate the reality when you write that close to 50% of the population pay no tax. That's not true; 50% pay no federal tax, but that 50% pays plenty of other taxes.
But back to the subject -- you call the evidence of tighter border control a "trite statistice from the AZ Republic rag." Well, no, it's an AP report summarizing the government statistics.
And you can you can "roll out FAR better evidence to the contrary too lengthty for a column."
Okay, give us one piece of evidence to the contrary. Just one.
mnjcpa posted at 8:16 am on Thu, Dec 8, 2011.
Mike - you miss the point.
Our economic problems are circular. It starts with our abysmal educational system, to the volumes of illegals in our system, to the taxes that have risen to care for these benefits. Taxes aren't a separate issue - they fund the problem.
And even if I gave you reading material - I doubt you would read it because judging from the snarky comments you write to others it appears you'll hold on to a belief that illegal immigration has subsided as if the problem has been solved. Ridiculous.
Other commenters have given you great resources & if 11 million illegals isn't enough of a stat for you to understand the burden this places on our system then I'm not going to waste my time attempting to open your eyes. You're a benefactor of liberal policies so I would expect nothing less. Thus why this country continues to be an economic mess and it starts with the educators which you're so much a part of.
CooperG posted at 8:37 am on Thu, Dec 8, 2011.
If this is Cardon's "real world solution" to immigration, his plan won't solve anything. All he's doing is pandering to a group of voters that he thinks will get him the nomination. He repeats the same tired old nonsense about drains on taxpayers that has no basis in fact and raises the same fear-mongering threats that simply don't exist except in the minds of the paranoid, the willfully uninformed and bigoted.
Mike McClellan posted at 10:09 am on Thu, Dec 8, 2011.
mnjcpa, you change the subject again. Now it's the existing 11 million illegals in the country. Cardon's column does not address that at all, with the exception of one vague paragraph at the end of the column.
And on top of that you still don't provide any of the reams of proof you claim you have that our border hasn't become more secure. Now it's "other commenters have given you great resources."
Like what? I've yet to hear you provide one iota of proof that the border between Mexico and the U.S. isn't more secure today than it was even a decade ago.
I've yet to hear you provide one iota of evidence to disprove the AP story you dismissed.
But I DO hear you comment on "waste of time," "benefactor of liberal policies," and "it [the economic mess] starts with the educators which you're so much a part of."
You should either put up or shut up.
mnjcpa posted at 10:28 am on Thu, Dec 8, 2011.
Pathetic - no wonder we're in trouble. You need to be the smartest guy in the room - be my guest.
Leon Ceniceros posted at 1:21 pm on Thu, Dec 8, 2011.
The question is if Wil Cardon supports the Mormon "Utah Compact" or not ???
Notice how he never says anything about the "Utah Compact" in his Letter to the Editor.
Another problem with Mr. Cardon's candidacy is that his Uncle is very high ranking member of the Mormon Church. This begs the question....where does Mr. Cardon's loyalty lie....with his Church...or his Country. We see Matt Salmon and Jeff Flake supporting the Mormon "Utah Compact" if not openly...then tacitly by not condemning it. Mitt Romney is now "Mr. No-Amnesty" but his history of ..."flip-flopping" is legendary...Abortion Rights, Gay Rights, Climate Change and Universal Health Care. A couple of years ago before his Campaign he supported all of these programs now Mitt has switched sides to get Republican votes. What "convictions" will Mitt Romney have on this issue or that issue...it's your guess as good as mine.
Mr. Cardon's candidacy has many of these same "conviction" questions.
Rational Human posted at 7:14 am on Fri, Dec 9, 2011.
Mike McClellan touts the miniscule advances in border security forced upon the Obozo administration by the steady stream of pressure coming from American Patriots as proof that there is no problem. He will defend any progressive socialist agenda doggedly because he is a benefactor of such policies. A hypocrite to the end.
Mike McClellan posted at 8:54 am on Fri, Dec 9, 2011.
Rational, don't play that game of distorting what others have said just to support your view.
You write, "Mike McClellan touts the miniscule advances in border security forced upon the Obozo administration by the steady stream of pressure coming from American Patriots as proof that there is no problem."
"as proof that there is no problem." Really? No problem?
Did you happen to read what I originally posted three days ago -- "Do we have a drug smuggling problem coming from Mexico? Of course.
Can we do more? Certainly " -- or did you simply ignore it so as to make your point seem more credible?
I'm all for stronger border security, and I'm for punishing employers who hire illegal immigrants and I'm for deporting those caught crossing the border.
But what Cardon doesn't address, and neither do you, is what we do with those 11 million already here. My suggestion -- and I'm sure you think it's part of the "progressive socialist agenda" those crazy socialists like Obama, McCain, Romney and Gingrich have supported -- is to give those otherwise law-abiding illegal residents of our country to have a path to legal residency.
Cerulean posted at 10:24 am on Fri, Dec 9, 2011.
Where oh where are the ‘real world’ solutions that are not already in practice?
Amusingly, Cardon slips into his mix of bullet points “federal government's funding responsibility for local and state governments to incarcerate illegal aliens”. Cardon, are you too receiving favor from Mr. Coughlin and the private prison industry? Speaking of benefactors . . .
samkat posted at 5:11 pm on Mon, Dec 19, 2011.
Mike: I gather from your writings that you favor amnesty. Now, think about this? With a border leaking like a sieve, the masses will continue to flow across the border. I think as an educator you are savvy enough to know that the vast majority of these people are uneducated and lacking job skills which means they will work low paying jobs. Since most of them will smuggle their families across the border, we the taxpayers will pick up the tab.
Now, without a strong E-Verify system to deny the illegals jobs, and and greedy employers who are not sanctioned for hiring them, the lure of employment will continue to draw them across the border. Now, lets assume the liberals are successful in pushing through amnesty, are you naive enough to think the feds are capable of processing that many people in a timely fashion? I think not and I suspect we would see the same fraud and corruption as in 1986 when illegal document mills set up shop next door to the INS offices. The estimated number of illegals eligible suddenly ballooned to over 3.2 million and many more never applied at all.
Now, fast forward to the present day and try to convince us that we would not have the same thing happen all over again. As with 1986, there would not be enough border patrol agents to stop the onslaught of invaders rushing to fill the void. Further, with no additional safeguards, we would simply see the same thing happen again.
Liberal or conservative, we need to set down a framework that will curtail illegal immigration. The associated costs are eating us alive.