The official Jon Huntsman website quotes Politico columnist Daniel Allott reporting that Huntsman "has an unwavering commitment to Israel." What constitutes such an unwavering commitment is not explained.
Mitt Romney's website reports his position to "bolster our support for Israel, which has always been and will continue to be our strongest ally in the Middle East."
Yet reportedly 23 percent of conservative Republicans express reticence to vote for a Mormon - both Romney and Huntsman being Latter-day Saint third cousins, twice removed from one of its most well-known founders, Parley Pratt. Is there anything about their faith which generates unwavering support for the state of Israel?
In the late 1970s and under the leadership of Spencer Kimble, a native Arizonan, who at that time occupied the preeminent leadership position in this faith, several notable changes occurred. Perhaps the most widely known was a change in policy which had kept black males from "holding the priesthood" - a form of affiliation with and exercise of leadership running from the top down to the individual family group. Another less well-known change had the second tier of leadership, the Council of the Twelve, step away from their daily responsibility to oversee administrative duties to focus exclusively on proselytizing, traveling more frequently and widely than ever before. And with that change, Howard W. Hunter, a member of this group, addressed a matter which his group had perceived as being problematic among church membership, calling the problem "exclusiveness," the favoring of one group or nationality over another. The example he picked to illustrate this inappropriate favoritism was "the present problem in the Middle East - the conflict between the Arabs and the Jews." (Ensign, June 1979 - official church magazine available at LDS.ord)
Commenting on another widely understood article of belief, the literal gathering of Israel in the latter days, Hunter reaffirmed that belief, observing: "But this does not give us justification to dogmatically pronounce that others of our Father's children are not children of promise. Mormons view all peoples who inhabit the earth as God's children."
Continuing, Hunter said: "Both the Jews and the Arabs are children of our Father. They are both children of promise, and as a church we do not take sides." Hunter reported an observation made to him by "a cabinet minister of Egypt ... that if a bridge is ever built between Christianity and Islam, it must be built by the Mormon Church. In making inquiry as to the reason for his statement I was impressed by his recitation of the similarities (in beliefs between these two faiths) and the common bonds of brotherhood."
Perhaps if conservatives are looking for leadership to help quell unrest between Palestinians and Israelis, they ought to look closer at Huntsman and Romney. And perhaps if Huntsman and Romney would adhere to the principles of their faith, they ought to recall Hunter's observation that "As members of the Lord's church, we (Mormons) need to lift our vision beyond personal prejudices. We need to discover the supreme truth that indeed our Father is no respecter of persons. Sometimes we unduly offend brothers and sisters of other nations by assigning exclusiveness (or favoritism) to one nationality of people over another."
Perhaps these two candidates need to match their unwavering commitment and bolstered support for Israel with an equal and unwavering measure of commitment and bolstered support for Palestine, too!
• Dale Whiting is a Chandler resident and member of the Mormon church
RationalHuman posted at 10:53 pm on Wed, Jul 6, 2011.
"As members of the Lord's church, we (Mormons) need to lift our vision beyond personal prejudices."
A good place to start with be with the Church itself; prejudice runs rampant in the Mormon church - can you think of another religious group that bars entry to all but their own members in good standing?
I have dozens of other scathing examples right here in Arizona, but I am sure Dale already knows what I am talking about - he is a smart guy. :)
RationalHuman posted at 10:57 pm on Wed, Jul 6, 2011.
It would truly be uplifting to see a campaign run not on the candidate's particular superstitious beliefs, but on their capabilities right here in the REAL world.
As for faith, I heard a good one recently that sums it up:
"Science flew men into space. Faith flew men into skyscrapers."
sockratties posted at 6:18 am on Thu, Jul 7, 2011.
We can expect candidates to espouse adherence to some faith and such beliefs will possibly influence the moral or ethical quality of their decisions, if elected. But their faith, beliefs or religious affiliations should not be part of their politics. I don’t want someone else’s religion to have ANY influence on my life, my politics, my agenda or my foreign policies; period. Separation of church and state should not stop at the Jeffersonian threshold.
Accuracy posted at 9:24 am on Thu, Jul 7, 2011.
GOP candidates Mitt Romney and Jon Huntsman – both members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints – are seeking the 2012 presidential nomination.
Romney is the formidable front runner for the Republican nomination for president. But, except in Utah, Nevada, and Idaho, Americans may not be ready to elect a Mormon as their president. Recent polls show that many Americans would not vote for a Mormon, even if the candidate was qualified.
Romney has stated, "We are a God-fearing people. Even those in this country that don't believe in God, believe in something bigger than themselves."
With Mormon faith and questions about positions on some social issues, Romney and Huntsman will probable bypass evangelical-heavy Iowa and focus their effort in the New Hampshire Republican primary.
Slabside posted at 10:03 am on Thu, Jul 7, 2011.
Both Huntsman or Romney stand a chance being elected to the WH faith not withstanding.
Currently we have a president who attended a church who's doctrine taught that blacks should not sing "God Bless America" but "God d a m n America." and that "white folks are liars.".
Considering this, what should it matter that a president believes that females are not allowed to have the priesthood or that there are three heavens: the Celestial Kingdom, Terrestrial Kingdom, and Telestial Kingdom. The Celestial is the highest, where God and the ones who followed his law reside. The Terrestrial is the middle, where people who followed the Law of Moses reside. The Telestial is the lowest, where the ones who followed carnal law reside.
Cerulean posted at 10:08 am on Thu, Jul 7, 2011.
For some reason, the Republican base finds it necessary to reassure the Israelis that they have our full support. This is interesting because most American Jews vote Democratic regardless of how much Republicans “bolster” their propagandizing.
So, President Obama has been bold, in my opinion, with his remark that any negotiations start with the premise that the Palestinian state be based on the 1967 borders or before the Six Day War. I recently listened to a Charley Rose interview with Jim Steinberg, former Deputy Secretary of State who said, “Our strongest and best partners are our Democratic partners.” This is what we value. This administration clearly supports a Palestinian/Israel 2 state solution but ‘what we know is that unilateral actions are not going to bring about the result that both sides want. Both sides, Palestinians and Israelis, need to interact in direct negotiations.’
Will Romney or Huntsman diverge from that policy in any significant way? No.
Cerulean posted at 10:21 am on Thu, Jul 7, 2011.
With that said, I imagine the possibly that there is money to be had from a few wealthy donors that appreciate the visual effect of the language on Mitt and Huntsman’s sites.
My first thought, but last wrote, is that you made a good point, Dale.
RationalHuman posted at 1:35 pm on Thu, Jul 7, 2011.
Cerulean wrote:
"For some reason, the Republican base finds it necessary to reassure the Israelis that they have our full support."
That's because they are religious nuts; they believe we are in the "End of Days" that their superstitious beliefs endorse...and that particular absurd belief requires that there are Jews in Israel (who will of course be the first to die, but oh well). This is their SOLE reason for supporting Israel...and some of them must still be intelligent enough to be embarrassed by it, because they sure don't like to advertise it!
Slabside posted at 3:19 pm on Thu, Jul 7, 2011.
Rational says: " That's because they are religious nuts"
But previously said,
"Please post where I have EVER "tarred and feathered" someone, ANYONE, for believing in a god."
"Notice the lying weasel, after accusing ME of unprovoke, bigotted insults"
"Are you a medical marijuana patient?"
"Isn't it funny (sad and pathetic, actually) that bigots like Leon have to use an analogy like illegal aliens to try and make a point."
"Isn't it strange how spineless cowards have to resort to name-calling, even when it doesn't apply?
"Oh Lord, I pray that you will let Leon Ceniceros's spine fully develop, or allow his balls to drop!" AMEN!"
"You religitards keep bleating about marraige"
Oh yes Rational, you never hurl insults. Can we all say HYPOCRITE?
Dale Whiting posted at 3:32 pm on Thu, Jul 7, 2011.
Well gang,
I expected to hear from more than the unsual few on this topic. Before I answer each comment, I'll wait a few more days. Some are very close. But as usual, most of you miss the point entirely. Hint: I did not pick the headline. The editor, Bob Romantic did. And he got the point precisely.
RationalHuman posted at 5:11 pm on Thu, Jul 7, 2011.
Slabside bleated:
"Oh yes Rational, you never hurl insults. Can we all say HYPOCRITE?"
Do you EVER comment without spewing lies, Slabside?
NONE of your examples of my insults were of me insulting someone for having a belief in a god - my claim stands - nice try with the backpeddling!
If someone believes the world is going to magically end soon based on their faith, and we should give billions in aid to Israel because of it, they are a religious nut. This is not an insult based on their belief in a god - this is a label they placed on themselves.
Oh, and Slab? I never said I never hurled insults - you just love to make stuff up and lie about it...why is that?
RationalHuman posted at 5:13 pm on Thu, Jul 7, 2011.
I should actually thank you, Slabside.
I was concerned that the label of "Lying Weasel" I applied to you may have been too harsh.
Thanks for providing evidence that it was not.
Slabside posted at 5:42 pm on Thu, Jul 7, 2011.
Why Rash, what's the matter... are we cross? If we were not friends anymore, I don't think I could bear it! [love][love][love][love]
RationalHuman posted at 6:35 pm on Thu, Jul 7, 2011.
Slabside - so you're not even going to TRY to defend your baseless, cowardly insults and false statements, just issue more??
Wow.
I've seen many ignorant, cowardly liars in my day...but very few that were actually PROUD of it.
Sad and pathetic.
Slabside posted at 4:33 am on Fri, Jul 8, 2011.
""Notice the lying weasel, after accusing ME of unprovoke, bigotted insults"
"Are you a medical marijuana patient?"
"Isn't it funny (sad and pathetic, actually) that bigots like Leon have to use an analogy like illegal aliens to try and make a point."
"Isn't it strange how spineless cowards have to resort to name-calling, even when it doesn't apply?
"Oh Lord, I pray that you will let Leon Ceniceros's spine fully develop, or allow his balls to drop!" AMEN!"
"You religitards keep bleating about marraige"
sockratties posted at 6:26 am on Fri, Jul 8, 2011.
Before we get all wrapped up in idealism let’s remember that the one god everyone in Washington D. C. worships is the dollar. If any politician doesn’t pay proper homage and respect to American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC) they won’t get elected to the WH. Even if individual Representatives get elected (once) they will fail because they won’t get cooperation from others unless they demonstrate pro-Israeli leanings.
Everyone who wants to success in DC caters to this powerful PAC. Personal beliefs notwithstanding, any politician who hopes to win the WH in 2012 will be pro-Israel or out of luck. It’s a crying shame, but it’s a fact.
[The New York Times described AIPAC on July 6, 1987 as "a major force in shaping United States policy in the Middle East." In 1997, Fortune magazine named AIPAC the second-most powerful influence group in Washington, D.C.
Many political leaders have addressed AIPAC conferences, including Presidents George W. Bush, Barack Obama and Bill Clinton, Vice Presidents Dick Cheney and Joe Biden, House Minority Whip Eric Cantor and Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton. Other speakers have included prominent Senators such as John Kerry, Joe Lieberman, John McCain, as well as and current and former members of the leadership of both parties in Congress, and current and former Prime Ministers of Israel.]... from Wikipedia.
RationalHuman posted at 6:58 am on Fri, Jul 8, 2011.
Yikes...it appears Slabside forgot his meds today.
He posted the same quotes that prove MY claim and not his - the same quotes he posted in his previous comment.
The bozo won't even attempt to defend his lies and false claims.
I've said it before...sad and pathetic.
Dale Whiting posted at 11:13 am on Fri, Jul 8, 2011.
Gang, I'm still giving it more time before I answer your comments. Expect something detailed from me on Saturday.
Had a nice call today form a devout lady who wanted to warn me that God would not support those who opposed Israel. As a born again Christian, she supports Israel. I pointed out that God supports those who support Him and that the Israel of the Old Testament was taken into captivity for sinning against Him. We Mormons believe that if and when the House of Judah get's their religious act together again, He will restore the covenants He made with them, but not at the expense of His children descending from Ishmael. He covenented with them, too.
I've asked this good Sister to log on, sign up and start posting her comments to us all.
RationalHuman posted at 12:32 pm on Fri, Jul 8, 2011.
"As a born again Christian, she supports Israel."
Of COURSE she does...can't have the End Times happen the way the "good book" says they will without the sacrificial Jews there to die for the "Big Plan".
". I pointed out that God supports those who support Him "
That's an amazing claim, Dale - can you support it with evidence, or it is just another empty religion claim?
savoy54 posted at 12:59 pm on Fri, Jul 8, 2011.
RationalHuman, can you prove it's not true?
VofReason posted at 1:16 pm on Fri, Jul 8, 2011.
Slicing through all of the BS, here's why it is smarter to throw in with Isreal over the Palestines. The Isrealis don't tie bombs to themselves and blow up Pizzerias full of innocent civilians. Palestinians do and celebrate such actions. Remember, if the Palestinians put down there guns, the conflict would cease to exist. If the Isrealis put down there guns, they would cease to exist. Think about it.
RationalHuman posted at 2:48 pm on Fri, Jul 8, 2011.
savoy54 = Can I prove WHAT is not true?
If you mean the superstitious nonsense, I will prove that all of it is not true just as soon as YOU prove the claim "Everything was created by purple fairies who farted the universe into existence" is not true.
Note that in both cases, each claim has equal validity.
Go ahead, I'll wait patiently. ;)
savoy54 posted at 3:54 pm on Fri, Jul 8, 2011.
RationalHuman, yes we both will wait. Me, with the comfort of the love of my God, you all alone with your bitterness and hatred.
RationalHuman posted at 4:56 pm on Fri, Jul 8, 2011.
I figured as much...disappointed at the ignorance and bigotry, but not surprised.
Have fun with your purple farting fairies.
Cerulean posted at 5:18 pm on Fri, Jul 8, 2011.
VofReason,
In recent years Palestinian President Abbas and Prime Minister Fayyad have made remarkable progress in creating jobs and building foundations for a civil society in Palestine. They are a Democracy just like Israel. Neither side is without ‘sin’ or failings.
Let us not forget that it was the Israeli Jews who, violently (it is estimated that 15,000 Arabs died during the Six Day War), in a land grab and who continue to build walls that separate Palestinians from their pastures and orchards.
savoy54,
RationalHuman is not alone in knowing that if you cannot prove a story is true then it remains a story. It is the kind of thing Myths are made of. We are all delighted that you are comfortable with your story. [wink]
Cerulean posted at 2:20 pm on Sat, Jul 9, 2011.
One more thought to all those sanctimonious Israel only promoters – Google Israeli government “pinkwashing”
Dale Whiting posted at 2:51 pm on Sat, Jul 9, 2011.
Where to start? Let’s start with the first and their subsequent comments and work toward the end.
RationalHuman,
I would not limit “exclusivity,” the phrase Hunter chooses to describe the problem of prejudice, to any single denomination. In his 1979 address Hunter speaks to two, discrimination against blacks and against Muslims. To a great extent the first has been addressed. The second remains problematic in western society, and across many denominations.
Remember that Florida preacher who wanted to burn Korans? Addressing this situation 10 months ago“SALT LAKE CITY 8 September 2010 “The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, through a spokesman, issued the following statement today in response to news media inquiries: ‘A key tenet of our faith is to accord everyone the freedom to worship as they choose. It is regrettable that anyone would regard the burning of any scriptural text as a legitimate form of protest or disagreement.’” Latter-day Saints afford to the Koran status as scripture! No other Christian denomination does as much.
I do know what you are talking about regarding discrimination. And my piece was intended to raise this issue now, not so much for the general readership as for my fellow Latter-day Saints, Romney and Huntsman included. Sadly few if any have responded!
Mormons have a unique perspective on science and faith. Truth, whether in the realm of science or religion, is independent of the realm of its existence. Where one seems to conflict with the other, either one or the other or both are misunderstood. Professors of the sciences take turns teaching religion courses at BYU. Evolution is taught there! And there is a Muslim Student Association at BYU. I roomed with a Pakistani there for almost three years! But anti Muslim sentiment existed back then and most certainly still does today.
Sockratties, Accuracy, Slabside,
I doubt that any position on any issue held by LDS leadership would surface in an administration lead by either Romney or Huntsman. Heck Romney was not opposed to same sex marriage and Huntsman has spoken in favor of civil unions.
Cerulean [my friend]
I expect you are right. Romney and Huntsman must appear to be strongly pro-Israel or they would get dumped. Yet most US Jews are Democrats. I would remind them and their fellow Latter-day Saints that we ought not to choose sides. Jimmy Carter got that right. And what other US President has done anywhere nearly as much for Middle East Peace than has this born again Baptist from Planes, GA?
RationalHuman [end of days- gathering of Israel]
I teach this lesson at church in September. Should be interesting to see how much perspective I can change in 45 minutes.
Slabside [7/7 @ 3:19] I don’t follow your point?
Rationalhuman/Slabside:
I’ll not commenting on your reciprocal comments. I don’t appreciate where either has valid points worth raising.
Sockratties [on AIPAC]
Couldn’t have said it better. I suspect this is what motivates Romney’s and Huntsman’s statements, even if they fly against what their religious leadership would counsel. In effect I am calling them out on this point.
RationalHuman [on born again one sided support for the State – not religion – of Israel]
I wish she had chimed in with our discussion. She looked me up and called. In our 20 minute telephone conversation I pointed out that Jimmy Carter is also born again and she agreed to read his book “Palestine, Peace not Apartheid.” I think I made some progress with her.
RationalHuman/savoy54 [on God siding with those who side with him]
I’ll concede that He is no respecter of persons – my misstatement. My favorite book in the Old Testament is Job. My favorite New Testament parable is the Prodigal Son. Very few readers get the ultimate points of either story. But from time to time, we are given to understand that those who obey His commandments come out ahead of those who don’t.
VofReason
Few Muslims are terrorists. And do not forget. The very first incidence of terrorism in modern day Palestine/Israel was perpetrated by a Jew who eventually won the Nobel Peace Price. Menachem Begin ordered the bombing of the King David Hotel!
Cerulean,
Thanks for the current perspective on Palestinian Politics and improved leadership. It is high time we threw in our lot with Zipi Livni and those of her Israeli followers who want to make peace not war with Palestinian Arab Muslims. Howard Baker and Lee Hamilton would agree. Since they do not need political contributions or financial support, they have an objective perspective worth adopting.
Now, thank you all for your comments. Let’s work for Peace, not War. War is easy but costly. Peace is hard but highly rewarding.
Slabside posted at 3:46 pm on Sat, Jul 9, 2011.
Cerulean says: "In recent years Palestinian President Abbas and Prime Minister Fayyad have made remarkable progress in creating jobs and building foundations for a civil society in Palestine."
Cerulean, would those be "civilized" rockets the Palestinians fire into Israel on a constant basis?
Cerulean says, "Let us not forget that it was the Israeli Jews who, violently (it is estimated that 15,000 Arabs died during the Six Day War), in a land grab and who continue to build walls that separate Palestinians from their pastures and orchards"
During June, 1967, Egypt massed approximately 100,000 in the Sinai Peninsula, Syria massed 75,000 troops along the Syrian border. 100 Iraqi tanks and an infantry division were readied near the Jordanian border. Jordan called up all reserve officers. Jordan military leaders met in Ramallah to request assistance assuring them that "in three days we'll be in Tel-Aviv".
The Arab air forces were aided by volunteer pilots from the Pakistan Air Force with help from Libya, Algeria, Morocco, Kuwait, and Saudi Arabia.
You're right Cerulean... HOW DARE ISRAEL DEFEND THEMSELVES!!!!!!!!
Dale Whiting posted at 5:19 pm on Sat, Jul 9, 2011.
Slabside,
After all that has been said, apparently you still would take sides! I repeat my closing lines. "Let’s work for Peace, not War. War is easy but costly. Peace is hard but highly rewarding."
Slabside posted at 5:39 pm on Sat, Jul 9, 2011.
Dale, from the bottom of my heart, I wish peace in the world, I truly do. Unfortunately, peace in our time will never happen and the sooner you stop with the "rose colored glasses" nonsense the better off you will be. You yourself have condoned terrorism and violence with your support of the mythical people of Palestine.
Dale, the end time are coming. You really need to decide which side of the fence you will be on when it comes. There will be no place for the ones riding the pine rail.
Slabside posted at 5:40 pm on Sat, Jul 9, 2011.
BTW Dale, I notice you just tend preach to me but not address the facts I posted for Cerulean. Tsk tsk.
Cerulean posted at 9:02 pm on Sat, Jul 9, 2011.
Slabside,
I am going to post a couple of links, I hope you at least consider the contents.
http://www.ifamericansknew.org/stats/giffords.html
http://www.nybooks.com/blogs/nyrblog/2011/jan/09/no-one-wants-to-know-israeli-soldiers-occupation/
Neither side is without failings.
Peace
Slabside posted at 9:30 pm on Sat, Jul 9, 2011.
http://www.newswithviews.com/israel/israel13.htm
http://www.dunamai.com/articles/israel/tips_arafat_apologist.htm
http://www.adl.org/presrele/IslEx_61/2694_61.asp
Dale Whiting posted at 6:26 am on Sun, Jul 10, 2011.
Slabside,
Cerulean and I don't take sides. We see "right" and "wrong" on both sides.
Have you read Jimmy Carter's book, "Palestine, Peace not Apartheid?" It's critics nit pick at trivial matters which Carter supports from his own recollections, recollections put in writing contemporancously. Carter has accomplished more toward Middle East Peace than has any other US President. The work accomplished world wide by the Carter Center is unparalleled.
If your answer goes something like "I would never read anything written by Carter" or "I do not read liberal balderdash" then know that Cerulean and I read both sides. Carter is coming up the middle. And Carter's views are supported by Baker/Hamilton.
RationalHuman posted at 8:19 am on Sun, Jul 10, 2011.
Slabside spewed:
"Dale, the end time are coming"
How sad, pathetic...and DANGEROUS.
I'm assuming Slabside is a grown adult.
These religitards need to remove themselves from the gene pool immediately...if there ever is an "end times" it will be because of the actions of religious nuts who think a magic sky fairy will save them.
Disgustingly ignorant.
RationalHuman posted at 8:53 am on Sun, Jul 10, 2011.
Dale wrote:
"RationalHuman [end of days- gathering of Israel]
I teach this lesson at church in September."
Dale, the myth of "End of Days" is not a lesson, it is an ignorant superstitious belief that has cost hundreds of thosands of lives.
The only Lesson to be taught about it is to discard primitive Bronze Age fairy tales in favor of reality.
Slabside posted at 11:14 am on Sun, Jul 10, 2011.
Hey Irrational Jackass, did a priest touch you in your naughty place once too often as you were growing up? Did he take your temperature baby like with his wonkus? Whatever turned you into the consummate jerk that you are, you need mega counseling. Until then, lick my brown round.
Dale Whiting posted at 1:14 pm on Sun, Jul 10, 2011.
Oh ye of little faith! Those of us with faith, whether rational, irrational, hopeful, or naive and foolish, need to be consistent. Those of faith must not take sides in the Middle East Conflict. Those of you who lack faith, probably ought to ignor the problem entirely. After all it is a religious conflict, nothing to concern you.
Today being the Christian Sabbath, Friday being the Muslim holy day, Saturday being the Jewish Sabbath, all three faiths honoring Isaiah, I thought to end this discussion with his vision of the future.
Isaiah 2
1The word that Isaiah the son of Amoz saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem.
2And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the Lord’s house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it.
3And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us ago up to the mountain of the Lord, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the flaw, and the word of the Lord from Jerusalem.
4And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.
People of Faith must work with both side towards Peace! In time we shall neither learn war any more.
RationalHuman posted at 2:42 pm on Sun, Jul 10, 2011.
Wow Slabside...false accusations, outright lies, insults all centered around homoerotica...
Someone does indeed need mega counseling...and that would be the person inviting a complete stranger to lick their rear end.
Again, I wish I could say I was surprised...but sadly this is typlical religitard behavior.
RationalHuman posted at 2:45 pm on Sun, Jul 10, 2011.
"Today being the Christian Sabbath"
Please show us where in the Bible the Sabbath was changed from the Seventh Day to the First Day. I would really like to see it.
"Those of us with faith, whether rational, irrational, hopeful, or naive and foolish, need to be consistent."
Yes...if you're going to be irrational, at least be consistent! LOL
"all three faiths honoring Isaiah, I thought to end this discussion with his vision of the future."
How about his vision of the world?
Isaiah 40:22 40:22 It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:
Dale, do you believe the earth is flat too, like Isaiah did?
RationalHuman posted at 2:53 pm on Sun, Jul 10, 2011.
"Those of you who lack faith, probably ought to ignor the problem entirely. After all it is a religious conflict, nothing to concern you."
If the actions of ignorant, superstitious people only affected ignorant, superstitious people, I would agree with you.
However, reality shows us that the actions of ignorant, superstitious people affect EVERYONE...no faith required!