An effort in Mesa to spark a more civil debate on illegal immigration is in danger of fizzling.
The reason, ironically, is fear that the immigration debate is so contentious that even addressing the tone of it would continue to stir the pot.
The civility movement had surprised some with its initial success after Mesa’s Human Relations Advisory Board held public hearings for months to consider that city’s own version of an immigration approach called the Utah Compact. Leaders in that state formed the compact to address the harsh rhetoric, and Mesa’s advisory board agreed unanimously to have their city adopt the concepts.
But support is lacking with the City Council.
Mayor Scott Smith said only one member wants to discuss the Mesa Compact. Arizona’s immigration experiences are different than Utah’s and a discussion now would just repeat the heated exchanges, he said.
“This debate and discussion is so toxic that it’s hard to say whether anyone has moved or whether it’s even possible at this time to take this discussion where it really needs to go, which is to find some solutions,” Smith said. “People are so polarized that it’s hard to have a rational discussion about finding what I call realistic solutions.”
The compact has no legal powers. The five-point document states immigration is a federal, not local, issue, while calling on state officials to push for stronger federal laws and border security. It says law enforcement should focus on criminal activity and not civil violations of federal code. The compact also calls for a free-market approach and humane treatment of immigrants.
The Utah Compact garnered national attention as well as calls for a nationwide version of it, while critics see it as cover for amnesty and more illegal immigration.
Councilman Dennis Kavanaugh called for the advisory board to research the compact because he sees it as a good framework for making policies. But the full Council likely won’t take up the issue because the body only considers items at the request of the mayor or with the support of three Council members. Kavanaugh is the only backer in a conservative city that is home of state Senate President Russell Pearce, a national figure in the anti-illegal immigration movement.
Kavanaugh noted the City Council hasn’t received the advisory board’s research and extensive public feedback that led to the board endorsing the compact. That will likely happen in late summer and could change some minds, he said.
The Council has voted against what advisory boards have recommended before but Kavanaugh said he can’t recall the body ever refusing to take up an issue from one of its own boards.
“I don’t think our Council has ever been afraid of discussing an idea but if they felt the item was not appropriate to discuss, I would respect that obviously,” Kavanaugh said.
Board Chairman James May said he couldn’t anticipate early on that the compact would be supported by the 11-member board because its members have diverse viewpoints. What appealed to him was that the compact’s approach could apply to any hot-button issue, May said.
“I think the overall message was that we have to be able to have some civil, compassionate discussions on resolving some of the issues that face us, not only in Mesa but in the Valley, the state and the nation,” May said. “It’s really disheartening to think maybe we couldn’t have some of those discussions.”
The board’s public hearings were largely respectful even as supporters and opponents testified for hours, he said. Speakers came from other Valley communities, and several East Valley tea party members spoke against the concept.
Smith notes the Utah Compact was formed by religious, business and community leaders while Mesa’s version was crafted by a city panel. The issue might stand a better chance with a wider base of support here, he said.
Smith said he appreciates the advisory board’s work even if he’s not ready to act now. He said he would rather focus on other issues because he doesn’t think a City Council endorsement or debate would change anything.
“It’s just at the point and time that the shouting and the screaming will tone down and we’ll have an adult conversation instead of just calling names,” Smith said. “If we can help nudge that along, I’d like to do that.”
• Contact writer: (480) 898-6548 or ggroff@evtrib.com
THE MESA COMPACT
The Mesa Compact, as drafted by the city’s Human Relations Advisory Board.
A declaration of five principles to guide Mesa’s immigration discussion
Federal solutions: Immigration is a federal policy issue between the U.S. government and other countries — not Mesa and other countries. We urge Mesa’s congressional delegation, and others, to lead efforts to strengthen federal laws and protect our national borders. We urge state leaders to adopt reasonable and human policies addressing all immigrants in Arizona.
Law enforcement: We respect the rule of law and support law enforcement’s professional judgment and discretion. Local law enforcement resources should focus on criminal activities, not civil violations of federal code.
Families: Strong families are the foundation of successful communities. We oppose policies that unnecessarily separate families. We champion policies that support families and improve the health, education and well-being of all Mesa children and families.
Economy: Mesa is best served by a free-market philosophy that maximizes individual rights, responsibilities, and opportunities. We acknowledge the economic role immigrants play as workers and taxpayers. Mesa’s immigration climate must affirm our global reputation as a welcoming and business-friendly community.
A free society: Immigrants are integrated into communities across Mesa neighborhoods. We must adopt a humane approach to this reality, reflecting our unique culture, history and spirit of inclusion. The way we treat each other defines us. Mesa should always be a place that welcomes people of goodwill.
RationalHuman posted at 6:42 pm on Fri, Jun 10, 2011.
"Law enforcement: We respect the rule of law and support law enforcement’s professional judgment and discretion. Local law enforcement resources should focus on criminal activities, not civil violations of federal code."
Wow - I can smell the bovine defecation from here.
If you RESPECT THE RULE OF LAW and believe law enforcement should focus on CRIMINAL ACTIVITIES, then you need to STOP PANDERING TO ILLEGAL ALIEN CRIMINALS - PERIOD.
They are CRIMINALS.
"Immigration is a federal policy issue between the U.S. government and other countries — not Mesa and other countries."
And Bank Robbery/Post Office Robbery are both Federal crimes...would you really expect local law enforcement to look the other way every time a crime of this nature occurs? Complete ignorance.
"Immigrants are integrated into communities across Mesa neighborhoods. We must adopt a humane approach to this reality, reflecting our unique culture, history and spirit of inclusion. The way we treat each other defines us. Mesa should always be a place that welcomes people of goodwill."
What a lovely sentiment...however, we are not talking about IMMIGRANTS, we are talking about ILLEGAL ALIEN CRIMINAL INVADERS.
The way they (the illegal criminals) treat US defines THEM...they are mongrel thugs with no allegiance whatsoever to this country...and they let us know it every day.
RationalHuman posted at 6:44 pm on Fri, Jun 10, 2011.
"We oppose policies that unnecessarily separate families."
GOOD! When you find an illegal, don't separate the family, DEPORT THEM ALL.
Oh, I guess the "policy" only works one way...there's a word for this:
HYPOCRISY
RationalHuman posted at 6:47 pm on Fri, Jun 10, 2011.
"Mesa should always be a place that welcomes people of goodwill."
Yes - welcome people of goodwill - and get rid of the rest.
Since when are criminals who are committing multiple felonies on a daily basis considered "people of goodwill"?
Only in Mesaco!
Leon Ceniceros posted at 8:40 pm on Fri, Jun 10, 2011.
Folks, don't you think it's kinda funny that the City of Mesa, Human Relations Advisory Board ..."UNANIMOUSLY"...supported the Utah Compact when 50% of the Citizens of Mesa that attended the Meeting were ....."OPPOSED"...to the Compact.
That means that the Human Relations Advisory Board did not consider this ..."OPPOSITION" ...as relevant.
In other words....the City of Mesa Offical Human Relations Advisory Board doesn't care what.....1/2 of the Citizens of Mesa feel about an ...."ISSUE".....the City of Mesa Official Human Relations Board .........KNOWS WHAT'S BEST FOR MESA'S CITIZENS........EVEN IF THEY DON'T WANT SOMETHING JAMMED DOWN THEIR THROATS.
DOESN'T THIS SOUND EXACTLY LIKE WHAT THE ....PELOSI DEMOCRATS DID IN THE CONGRESS WHEN THEY JAMMED DOWN THE THROATS OF AMERICANS.................OBAMA-CARE.
Here is what one of the City of Mesa Official Human Relations Advisory Board Members had to say....."SB 1070 HAS BEEN A BLACK EYE FOR OUR COMMUNITY, OUR STATE AND OUR NATION".
Another City of Mesa Official Human Relations Advisory Board Member, Denise Heap said...."When I first read the Utah Compact, I was thrilled".
NO WONDER EVEN MESA MAYOR SCOTT SMITH IS LEARY ABOUT THE PRO-ILLEGAL ALIEN, PRO-AMNESTY........UTAH COMPACT'S....UNANIMOUS APPROVAL BY THE CITY OF MESA OFFICIAL HUMAN RELATIONS ADVISORY BOARD.
az2008 posted at 2:40 am on Sat, Jun 11, 2011.
The point which Mesa overlooks is called "attractive nuisance." When you signal that your community is a safe haven for illegal immigrants, you'll have more illegal immigrants. That creates a greater incentive for illegal immigrants to take the risk of running the federal gauntlet.
Mesa's logic would be like a tavern owner saying "it's the parents' responsibility to keep their kids out of bars. I'm not getting involved in that. Anyone who can make it to my bar can drink as much as they want. I'm not asking any questions. I'm in business to make people feel good! Not do their parent's job."
If that happened, everyone would condemn it as *actively* contributing to a problem. But, to Mesa, they don't see a problem.
CooperG posted at 7:34 am on Sat, Jun 11, 2011.
I attended those hearings, Leon, and "50%" of them did NOT oppose the compact, it was more like 25% did and they were noisy, uninformed and old who were willing to toss civil rights and freedom out the window because they don't like anyone who looks Mexican and they hate change.
That the Council is acting cowardly isn't surprising. But the fact the LDS church came out with a strong statement yesterday that provides further support for the Utah Compact, the noisy and wrong 25% will lose even more support for their extreme and hateful views.
It's the opponents of the Compact who need to listen, not the other way around.
Accuracy posted at 12:16 pm on Sat, Jun 11, 2011.
CooperG wrote: It's the opponents of the Compact who need to listen, not the other way around.
------------------------------------
That is what the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU), who has filed suit against the state of Utah, are saying in their lawsuit to halt the Utah Illegal Immigration Enforcement Act (HB 497) from going into effect. The ACLU is saying that and saying HB 497 violates the Utah Compact.
“Mesa Council unlikely to adopt immigration concepts of Utah Compact”
Adopt a modified version of the Utah Compact — called the Mesa Compact? It has stirred attention, because of its contrast with Arizona's Illegal Immigration Law, Senate Bill 1070 which is under U.S. Supreme Court review in Washington, D.C.
The U.S. Supreme Court upheld Arizona's "Legal Workers Arizona Act". So, right now (with the appeal of Senate Bill 1070 to the U.S. Supreme Court) the Mesa Council, the East Valley Patriots for American Values, the “Open Border” supporters, and the opponents of the Compact should just wait.
Leon Ceniceros posted at 2:41 pm on Sat, Jun 11, 2011.
OLD, NOISY = YES.....UNINFORMED = NO
Let just look at who MAYOR SCOTT SMITH (thinking about running for Congress in 2012) or... VICE-MAYOR SCOTT SOMERS (planning on running for Mayor of Mesa) or... DAVE RICHINS (District 1) or... ALEX FINTER (District 2) or ...DENNIS KAVANAUGH (District 3) or...CHRISTOPHER GLOVER (District 4) or ...DINA HIGGINS (District 5) or who ever it was that...CHOOSE THE CITY OF MESA HUMAN RELATIONS ADVISOR BOARD...MEMBERS....WHO THE HECK ARE THEY;
1. A graduate of Univ. of California at Santa Cruz (the most LEFT-WING LIBERAL Univeristy in America = that makes the Liberal Univ. of California at Berkeley (Patty Hearst, Simbionese Liberation Army, known for its students who spit on returning Viet Nam Veterans at San Francisco Airport and the Oakland Train Depot)...look like Oral Roberts Christian University in comparison).
2. Racial Diversity activist
3.Mesa Police Association (this Union was totally against SB 1070) publicist
4. Supporter of Congressman Jeff Flake who co-sponsored the S.T.R.I.V.E. Act in Congress that did gave the 20,000,000 Mexican Illegal Aliens everything but move the Mexican Border...north of I-40).
5. L.G.B.T.Q. for Change activist ( L= Lesbian, G = Gays, B.T.Q. = I wouldn't know how to describe).
6. A Maricopa County Democrat Party Leader (duh).
7. Racial Hate Crimes Activist (the Mesa Police Department Asst. Chief told this Board that there were no Hate Crimes committed in Mesa in 2010...but that fell on deaf ears)
8. Hispanic Rights activists (Centro de Amistad, Paz de Cristo).
AND YOU WONDER WHY THE 50% OF MESA CITIZEN'S DISAPPROVAL OF THE ........UTAH COMPACT.....WENT IN ONE EAR AND OUT THE OTHER OF THESE ..............MESA HUMAN RELATIONS ADVISORY BOARD MEMBERS.
WHY DID THIS BOARD EVEN WASTE THE TIME OF THE CITIZENS OF MESA WHEN..............APPROVAL OF THE UTAH COMPACT........WAS A FORGONE CONCLUSION.
NothingButTheTruth posted at 8:52 am on Sun, Jun 12, 2011.
“This debate and discussion is so toxic that it’s hard to say whether anyone has moved or whether it’s even possible at this time to take this discussion where it really needs to go, which is to find some solutions,” Smith said. “People are so polarized that it’s hard to have a rational discussion about finding what I call realistic solutions.”
There really is nothing to discuss because there is only one realistic solution.
Under Title 8 Section 1325 of the U.S. Code, "Improper Entry by Alien," any citizen of any country other than the United States who:
Enters or attempts to enter the United States at any time or place other than as designated by immigration officers; or
Eludes examination or inspection by immigration officers; or
Attempts to enter or obtains entry to the United States by a willfully false or misleading representation or the willful concealment of a material fact;
HAS COMMITTED A FEDERAL CRIME.
Violations are punishable by criminal fines and imprisonment for up to six months, a misdemeanor. Repeat offenses can bring up to two years in prison, a felony. Additional civil fines may be imposed at the discretion of immigration judges, but civil fines do not negate the criminal sanctions or nature of the offense.
Apologists for illegal immigration like to paint it as a victimless crime. But in fact, illegal immigration causes substantial harm to American citizens and legal immigrants, particularly those in the most vulnerable sectors of our population--the poor, minorities, and children.
Illegal immigration causes an enormous drain on public funds. The seminal study of the costs of immigration by the National Academy of Sciences found that the taxes paid by immigrants do not cover the cost of services received by them. We cannot provide high quality education, health care, and retirement security for our own people if we continue to bring in endless numbers of poor, unskilled immigrants.
Additionally, job competition by waves of illegal immigrants willing to work at substandard wages and working conditions depresses the wages of American workers, hitting hardest at minority workers and those without high school degrees.
Illegal immigration also contributes to the dramatic population growth overwhelming communities across America--crowding school classrooms, consuming already limited affordable housing, and straining precious natural resources like water, energy, and forestland.
AmericanPatriot posted at 4:37 pm on Sun, Jun 12, 2011.
CooperG, the wrong 25% will lose even more support for their extreme and hateful views? Where do they get these guys? Our ears are open Cooper and we hear you well. It's people like Cooper who will try to use America's greatest strengths against us. Our compassion and love of freedom is what he wants to destroy us with. He thinks we want to deny civil rights to anyone who looks like a Mexican. What does a Mexican look like? You need to see documents to tell if someone is a Mexican or not, and he doesn't want us to see them, so that we can't tell what a Mexican looks like. I think he must mean brown people. Right, we must all be brown people haters and hate change too. Civil rights are for Americans Cooper. Human rights are for all people Cooper. I just want to give the Mexicans their human rights in Mexico. They can fight for their civil rights when they get home. That is unless they are cowards.
AustrianEconomics posted at 9:17 am on Mon, Jun 13, 2011.
I was at every single human relations advisory board. Was mayor scott smith? NO.
The board did not want a "discussion", they just wanted to reccomend the utah compact before they went to recess for the summer.
At this point I am against negotiation, dialog, and delay . . . I support an immediate action to control the border and enforce our laws. We should not be debating if somthing is good or bad, only if it is constitutional. Otherwise the federal government and city governments have no authority to stand on. These "values" are nothing more than a sanctuary city policy which THE STATE HAS ALREADY ADDRESSED.
A city has no authority to force "values" on me. Values come from the individual and how they rationalize their actions.
Masterrogue666 posted at 6:02 am on Thu, Jun 16, 2011.
" federal, not local, issue, while calling on state officials to push for stronger federal laws and border security" -- In other words, they know the Feds don't plan on doing anything more, so the sure don't want the State to pick up the slack.
"should focus on criminal activity and not civil violations of federal code." -- In other words, don't arrest those poor landscapers that are just trying to make a living. The problem is that criminal activity goes hand in hand with ILLEGAL immigration. If they break the law, the ARE CRIMINALS. Many go on to break additional laws like using a US citizen's identity.
" free-market approach and humane treatment of immigrants." -- THERE CAN'T be free market approach is ILLEGAL immigrants are allowed a part of the workforce. It depresses the rate that US CITIZENS get paid, et al.
As for humane treatment, sneak in Mexico ILLEGALLY, and see how much humane treatment you get there. These people are FOREIGN NATIONALS, not US CITIZENS. It's time to take care of the US CITIZEN, and send foreign nationals packing!!!
American Pride posted at 2:58 am on Thu, Nov 24, 2011.
It's really very simple... people who don't respect our immigrations laws and borders don't respect our country and people. Those people don't belong here under ANY circumstances. It doesn't matter where they come from, what color their skin is, how long they've managed to duck our laws and live here or how many children they've burdoned us with. And by the way, for those who whine about 'tearing families apart'... those children have dual citizenship so their parents can take them home with them.