Arizona's faculty associations, student associations, chiefs of campus police, administration and governing board remain united in their opposition to legislation that would allow concealed weapons on college and university campuses.
"We put a lot of people in small places. You add youth, age, alcohol and that's a terrible mix for handguns or any kind of guns," said G.T. Fowler, Northern Arizona University chief of police. "None of us are against guns. In fact, two of us are former NRA firearm instructors. We just know that it's not a good equation when you have a lot of extra people carrying weapons."
SB 1474 would allow people who obtain a concealed weapon permit to carry on college and university campuses in Arizona.
In a letter dated Feb. 3, the three police chiefs of the state universities addressed the state Legislature stating their opposition to SB 1474.
"In an active shooter situation, the primary objective of law enforcement is to neutralize the threat as quickly as possible," the letter reads. "Currently, officers working at our universities know that when they respond to an active shooter situation, most likely the person with a weapon will be an adversary. They also know that there will be noise, confusion, carnage and chaos ... Additional people with weapons will delay law enforcement from reaching the active shooter and increase the potential of more victims."
Obtaining a permit involves relatively little training, according to the letter. Acceptable training can be completed by taking hunter education or a safety class, or an honorable discharge from the military, in conjunction with a field day that involves shooting either a pellet rifle or a 22-caliber rifle.
"Neither of these training ensures that the permit holder has ever fired a handgun or demonstrated any proficiency with the weapon they intend to carry concealed," the letter states.
Schools could still prohibit weapons in buildings, but would also have to provide secure gun lockers at the entrance of those buildings that are gun-free.
Currently, state law allows governing boards to self-determine if they will allow or prohibit weapons.
"We stand united with students across the state in opposition to this legislation," said J.C. Muchler, a representative from the University of Arizona faculty association, addressing the Arizona Board of Regents during the meeting Thursday at Arizona State University in Tempe. "And we stand united in our opposition of distant lawmakers ..." who aren't among those affected by the legislation.
The ASU Police Department, one of 53 college police departments in the country to be accredited, employs nearly 150 employees, Chief John Pickens told the Regents board during a campus safety update. Response time is an average of three minutes.
"Having everyone armed isn't the answer," said Anthony Daykin, the UA chief of police. "If everyone were fully trained, with continuous training and had to be retrained, like police officers do, that might be one answer. But the more guns, there is more likelihood for accidents."
And even with training, it may not be enough to respond to an incident appropriately.
"We are trained and we train continuously," Pickens said. "We don't always know how we're going to respond. We just hope that the training kicks in and we respond appropriately. We don't always hit our targets either."
And even those who do have training can have accidental discharges.
Daykin described an incident of an accidental shooting during his time in the Marine Corp. while cleaning a firearm. He cited an incident that happened last week out of state.
In one hypothetical example, Pickens described an armed robbery where someone wants to defend him or herself.
"So everyone has a gun," he said. "Someone walks by and sees a gun, so shots are fired. And you see how that multiplies."
"We are in an environment that is part teaching, learning and debate," Pickens said. "The problem with weapons is there is no cooling-off period."
If the legislation is passed, and the universities choose to make buildings gun-free, the cost of providing gun lockers could be in the millions of dollars to each of the universities, Daykin said.
And while the exact numbers haven't been determined, each university has hundreds of buildings, Daykin said.
"It's basically an unfunded mandate," said Pickens.
One of the most prevalent crimes occurring at all three universities is theft and crimes of opportunity, according to the police chiefs.
With such high rates of theft, having weapons left unattended in backpacks or purses could become an issue, Pickens said.
Much of the discussion at the Legislature has included the fact that only students, faculty and staff who are older than 21 are eligible to buy a gun.
"In my six years as an elected official, not one of my constituents has come to me asking me to advocate for firearms on campus," said Kelley Stewart, the president of the graduate and professional student government.
At least 90 percent of the students in ASU's graduate program are older than 21 and would be able to purchase firearms under Arizona state law, said Rhian Stotts, the vice president for external affairs of ASU's graduate and professional students association. At ASU alone, there are nearly 14,000 graduate students.
"Not one legislator has asked us how we feel (about guns on campus)," Stewart said. "We weren't even a part of the discussion; we've inserted ourselves into the discussion."
The legislation would not just affect those who work, live and study on campus, but also thousands of people who visit campuses every day, including K-12 students, prospective students and their parents, said ASU President Michael Crow.
It could also affect the recruitment and retention of faculty at the universities, said Allen Reich, NAU faculty senate president.
Some faculty will teach online rather than face-to-face, retire early or take employment elsewhere and it will be harder to recruit new staff, Reich said.
Contact writer: (480) 898-5645 or sspring@evtrib.com
ANTITHUG posted at 6:12 pm on Sat, Feb 18, 2012.
Downtownresident obviously supports rapists, murders and thugs, or is one, and hates America and the constitution. This resident thinks only criminals on campus should have guns. Please, tell this to Amanda Collins who has a license to carry, but didn't because the school said "no" and she was brutally raped on the same parking level as the campus police station by a serial rapist. Was this victim (a law abiding citizen) an idiot? I think you're confused. The right to defend oneself is a right. It is a constitutional right. It is a God given right. Try being a rape victim, first, before you call people supporting their constitutional right to carry "idiots".
Dale Whiting posted at 11:59 am on Sat, Feb 18, 2012.
downtownre$ident,
By my quick count, 6 of the above 11 commenter$ $eem to $upport pa$$age and therefore I a$$ume think it'$ a good idea. And on the poll regarding gun legi$lation on campu$ 1/3 expre$$ed favorable opinion$. $o there i$ $upport, ju$t not much public $upport. It'$ all private NRA dollar$ going into the pocket$ of our augu$t Legi$lator$. $o it'$ a done deal! The $econd Amendment ha$ no rea$onable limit$!
Humm! I gue$$ my keyboard ha$ $ome problem$! I'll have to fix it!
downtownresident posted at 10:35 am on Sat, Feb 18, 2012.
Only a total idiot would support this. That says something for our elected "officials", doesn't it.
Who, in their right mind, would think this is a good idea.
Dale Whiting posted at 4:17 am on Sat, Feb 18, 2012.
kj,
Sources! Sources! Sources for the facts supporting your numerous opinions!
1) Private institutions of higher learning are conservative or at least well informed. Let me guess. The 99% can't afford private schools so they must be attending public ones!
2) An educated mind from a private institution reflects all that is good and rightegeous in a well-balanced debate. I might agree, but you don't. Two of the three schools from which I have degrees at the top of my class were private schools and I doubt you would classify my mind as "good or righteous." [Is rightegeous" a new word, one you've just coined?] And since you have not much higher education is this your admission that your ideas are not "good and rightegeous?"
3) Isn't John Pickens the ASU campus police chief and Daykin? Or were they both a graduates of some public school? Why do you discount what they say? Did you graduate from a private school? I think not!
4) Where "All responsible gun owners I know hold their "weapon of choice" close, to prevent loss, or theft" what makes you believe that some you don't know non't do otherwise? And how have you defined "responsible'? All responsible dog owners I know who walk their dogs off lease take care to avoid untoward events. I suspect those gun owners who carry take similar steps? But you seem to differentiate between gun owners and dog owners! Does the second amendment somehow enter into your thinking here?
Back to school for you, kiddo!
k33j88 posted at 4:37 pm on Fri, Feb 17, 2012.
Oh my GOD----where do I begin.? Stacie, where are the conservative minds listed in your first paragraph? As we all know, at least the level-headed ones, academia is rife with the liberal(progressive) mantra. State-run institutions have been, and continually are, historically liberal. An educated mind from a private institution reflects all that is good and rightegeous in a well-balanced debate. Stacie, you've been watching way too many "wild west shows". Most people would dive for cover, or run in an explosive situation. Survival instincts do kick-in. Do you honestly believe that the readers here would pull out their weapons in a free-for-all to see who the last man/woman standing is? A clear, well-placed shot, takes time, to avoid any unfortunate casulties. Since when is a criminal going to obey any "gun locker laws", or any other laws for that matter. Pickens states: "We don't always hit our target". How can any sensible person put their faith in this ineptness? Daykin, chief of campus police, recalls an acidental discharge while cleaning a weapon in Marine Corp training. This is what the parents of students have to protect their children. Lest we not forget the responsible gun-owners relinquishing their "rights" to this questionable security. F-troop gone wild. Pickens describes the armed robbery senario in a neat, homogenized atmosphere, devoid of extenuating circumstances. Again, the liberal "wild west" mentality, where reason and logic don't apply. Ah yes, theft of weapons in unattended backpacks and purses. Maybe homes and businesses should be gun-free zones because of un-attended consequences. All responsible gun owners I know hold their "weapon of choice" close, to prevent loss, or theft. Primarily for self-preservation, is the main reason. Stacie proves, once again, that "liberalism is a mental disorder" ----Thank You Dr. Michael Savage.
ANTITHUG posted at 3:51 pm on Fri, Feb 17, 2012.
No Weapons on Campus:
ATTENTION CRIMINALS:
All law abiding citizens have been disarmed for your convenience.
Enjoy,
Liberal Socialistic Communistic Collegiate Party Leaders
ANTITHUG posted at 3:39 pm on Fri, Feb 17, 2012.
Isn't it illogical how a university encourages people to stand up for their constitutional rights, except the very one when facing a violent criminal?
ANTITHUG posted at 3:34 pm on Fri, Feb 17, 2012.
Amanda Collins (CCW holder raped on campus) says, "I don't understand why (the state) trusts good, responsible people to be able to have their firearm across the street, and as soon as they cross an arbitrary line, they somehow lose all reason and ability to be able to be competent with that responsibility. It makes no sense to me at all."
ANTITHUG posted at 3:28 pm on Fri, Feb 17, 2012.
asuaguila is absolutely right that a person doesn't change their skin color, and shouldn't be deprived of their rights to self defense, free speech, etc., because of their skin color. It's arbitrary to take a person's rights away because of their color. It's just as arbitrary to take a persons rights away because their LOCATION, too! You are just as bad as a bigot, asuaguila! I have my rights as long as I don't cross some invisible line? As long as my color stays over here? Do us all a favor asuaguila, and take your socialist ways to a socialist country, or at least practice taking your own rights away. Start with your free speech, and then give up your other rights... perhaps your civil rights. You can choose to be a VICTIM. I'll be a gun owner. How about giving rape victims, like Amanda Collins (a CCW holder that showed up to college without her gun) a fighting chance? asuaguila would rather people be targets, raped, beat and strangled than to ever have a chance. asuaguila supports murders, rapists, and thugs, and would rather give them a safe place to conduct their crimes. Next time you're being raped, you can call a cop. But, when seconds count, I'd rather have a gun than a cop on the phone.
In_God_We_Trust posted at 2:57 pm on Fri, Feb 17, 2012.
America is also it's laws. The United States Constitution. You ever wonder why the founding fathers made the right to bear arms the second amendment right after the right to freedom of speech? Just because we made the mistake of allowing our education system to be infiltrated by America hating liberal socialists doesn't make our educational a "no constitution zone". If you think differently please run for office on that issue and see what mileage you get. I know you believe that the Obamanation is right not to enforce the rule of law as enacted by our legislators cause you applaud his refusal to enforce our immigration laws, so I'm sure you would wipe your behind on the constitution just as the Obamanation has. You know if you want to live in a safe country where no one is allowed to own a gun you should move to the ultra safe country of Mexico. Now there's a country that has it's act together. I bet their schools are so much safer than ours.
In_God_We_Trust posted at 2:26 pm on Fri, Feb 17, 2012.
asuaguila, America isn't a parcel of land. It is The American People. Where ever we go with the force of arms is our land. Whatever we can control by the force of arms is our land. That we now occupy this parcel of land is due to our coming here with the force of arms. If you were an American you would understand that.
In_God_We_Trust posted at 2:15 pm on Fri, Feb 17, 2012.
Psycho babble says, " If Laughner was seen carrying on campus with sufficient time for someone to report him, he might be stopped."
Jared Laughner was insane but not stupid. He chose his weapon by the caliber and amount of ammo each mag would hold, so what makes you think he wouldn't have concealed in on campus until he was ready to start shooting? Isn't it time to stop using the liberal, democrat Jared Laughner's murder rampage as an excuse to grab all the guns?
asuaguila posted at 2:13 pm on Fri, Feb 17, 2012.
In_God_We_Trust loves America but hates Americans.
In_God_We_Trust posted at 2:09 pm on Fri, Feb 17, 2012.
Just an explosive situation ready to happen.
I can see it now. The bill passes and the next day some liberal anti gun nut job goes on a rampage shooting everyone he can just to prove that guns on campus are dangerous. Kinda like what The Obamanation did with Fast and Furious. That was the Obamanation's equivalence to Toys for Tots. We call it semi autos for cartels.
In_God_We_Trust posted at 1:58 pm on Fri, Feb 17, 2012.
Psychobabble says, "You've got it right. No one, not you, not me, not Jared Laughner, would be allowed to carry a weapon on campus. Therefore, there would be no need to check weapons at the door, no need for expensive lockers."
Uh, that way any criminals thinking of taking guns into classrooms will not ever do so cause that is the law and all criminals obey the law.
In_God_We_Trust posted at 1:56 pm on Fri, Feb 17, 2012.
Worthy of saying again.
Folks, these are exactly the same ...faculty associations...student associations...campus law enforcement...University administrators and Board of Governors ............THAT WERE OPPOSED TO ........SB1070....THE ANTI-ILLEGAL ALIEN LAW.
DO YOU WANT ...ASU.....U of A and NAU........TO BECOME ....ANTI-AMERICAN....UNIVERSITY OF CALIFORNIA AT .....BERKELEY'S ????
IS THIS WHAT YOU WANT....YOUR SON...YOUR DAUGHTER TO BECOME...AMERICA-HATING ANARCHISTS....YOUR GRANDCHILDREN TO LEARN FROM THEIR ...SOCIALIST/COMMUNIST PARENT TO ...SPIT, DEFACE AND EVEN URINATE ON THE AMERICAN FLAG.
STOP THE SOCIALISM ON ARIZONA'S UNIVERSITY CAMPUSES....STOP THE COMMUNISM.....THE ANTI-WHITE, ANTI-PATRIOTIC, ANTI-CAPITALISM.
BRING AMERICANISM BACK ONTO THE CAMPUS.....LET THE STUDENTS CARRY GUNS SO THAT WHEN THE ....MIDDLE-EASTERN RELIGIOUS TERRORISTS COME ON CAMPUS TO MASSACRE TENS IF NOT HUNDREDS OF STUDENTS (YOUR SONS AND DAUGHTERS)....A GUN-CARRYING RED-BLOODED, ALL-AMERICAN STUDENT CAN STAND UP AND STOP THE SLAUGHTER WITH HIS ........................GUN.
asuaguila posted at 1:54 pm on Fri, Feb 17, 2012.
antithug a person does not choose their skin color or choose to be handicapped. And someone's color does not endanger me. You choose to have your gun-that is an arbitrary decision. And the state of Arizona encourages irresponsible gun ownership as noted by the countless accidental shootings, kids brining their parents' guns to school, and police killings because cops don't know what they are facing here (Scottsdale cop who has been involved in 7 killings), all here in Arizona. Do us both a favor and stay away from campus!
In_God_We_Trust posted at 1:54 pm on Fri, Feb 17, 2012.
Psychobabble says, "Imagine what might have happened at Pima Community College if it was legal for Jared Laughner to take his weapon of choice on campus into a class room?"
Uh, so ya think he was just a law abiding citizen back then or the thought had yet to cross his mind?
In_God_We_Trust posted at 1:50 pm on Fri, Feb 17, 2012.
Psychobabble says, "Imagine what might have happened at Pima Community College if it was legal for Jared Laughner to take his weapon of choice on campus into a class room?"
Uh, he wouldn't have been around to shoot a sitting US Representative in the head?
ANTITHUG posted at 1:08 pm on Fri, Feb 17, 2012.
God bless the USA, the U.S. constitution, the constitutions of 44 states, common law, and the laws of all 50 states that recognize the right to use arms in self-defense! When was the last time you saw my concealed handgun? I've carried daily for years (CCWP,Veteran). I walk by you at the mall, in the restaurant, in the grocery store, getting gas, at the park with my kids and even sit next to you at the movies and church. Don't throw away the rights so many soldiers have fought and died for. In AZ, campus life is an extension of the surrounding community where concealed carry is legal and prevalent (and full of students). Banning this right on campus is arbitrary; as arbitrary as banning a student because of skin color, or disability. A University is either part of a community or it isn't. It's values should reflect this and be congruent. Perhaps, take lesson from University of Utah.
Dale Whiting posted at 7:08 am on Fri, Feb 17, 2012.
Mr. 666,
You've got it right. No one, not you, not me, not Jared Laughner, would be allowed to carry a weapon on campus. Therefore, there would be no need to check weapons at the door, no need for expensive lockers.
mvccd1000,
And you miss the point entirely. If Laughner was seen carrying on campus with sufficient time for someone to report him, he might be stopped. As those 2 NRA instructors and their chief of police observe, "We put a lot of people in small places. You add youth, age, alcohol and that's a terrible mix for handguns or any kind of guns," said G.T. Fowler, Northern Arizona University chief of police. "None of us are against guns. . . . We just know that it's not a good equation when you have a lot of extra people carrying weapons."
The classic NRA response is "Let a responsible gun owner shoot Laughner as he begins shooting others." I don't know of a single officer of the law anywhere who supports that notion!
Leon,
I see you still have your voice BACK!
Leon Ceniceros posted at 6:02 am on Fri, Feb 17, 2012.
Folks, these are exactly the same ...faculty associations...student associations...campus law enforcement...University administrators and Board of Governors ............THAT WERE OPPOSED TO ........SB1070....THE ANTI-ILLEGAL ALIEN LAW.
DO YOU WANT ...ASU.....U of A and NAU........TO BECOME ....ANTI-AMERICAN....UNIVERSITY OF CALIFORNIA AT .....BERKELEY'S ????
IS THIS WHAT YOU WANT....YOUR SON...YOUR DAUGHTER TO BECOME...AMERICA-HATING ANARCHISTS....YOUR GRANDCHILDREN TO LEARN FROM THEIR ...SOCIALIST/COMMUNIST PARENT TO ...SPIT, DEFACE AND EVEN URINATE ON THE AMERICAN FLAG.
STOP THE SOCIALISM ON ARIZONA'S UNIVERSITY CAMPUSES....STOP THE COMMUNISM.....THE ANTI-WHITE, ANTI-PATRIOTIC, ANTI-CAPITALISM.
BRING AMERICANISM BACK ONTO THE CAMPUS.....LET THE STUDENTS CARRY GUNS SO THAT WHEN THE ....MIDDLE-EASTERN RELIGIOUS TERRORISTS COME ON CAMPUS TO MASSACRE TENS IF NOT HUNDREDS OF STUDENTS (YOUR SONS AND DAUGHTERS)....A GUN-CARRYING RED-BLOODED, ALL-AMERICAN STUDENT CAN STAND UP AND STOP THE SLAUGHTER WITH HIS ........................GUN.
soricobob posted at 4:30 am on Fri, Feb 17, 2012.
All of you, listen, we are State Legislators, elected by the people, and we know what's best, If you don't like it go back where you came from!
Don't you get it, once elected to office something happens to them.
mvccd1000 posted at 12:52 am on Fri, Feb 17, 2012.
Good comment, Dale - just imagine if it was legal for Laughner to shoot people; he might have done that, too!
I also agree that "what was good enough for us last year is good enough for us this year." That solid old constitution has been good enough for us for a long time, so it's nice to see Arizona passing laws to stop infringing so much on the protections it provides.
For those who haven't put much thought into this, there are almost never "active shooter situations" as those mentioned in the article. Instead, there are students (like me) who work full time and take 7-10pm classes, walking out into dark parking garages afterward. There are students who live off campus and drive to class who don't wish to become criminals simply by crossing the campus boundary with a gun in the trunk. These are the people who will benefit from the law.
Masterrogue666 posted at 7:52 pm on Thu, Feb 16, 2012.
Dale: From what little I heard on the TV, you wouldn't be allowed to have a weapon on your person inside of campus buildings. Instead, it would have to be turned over. It only allows students to carry it on campus grounds.
It's stated above "Schools could still prohibit weapons in buildings, but would also have to provide secure gun lockers at the entrance of those buildings that are gun-free." Of course, that would increase the costs of going to college.....
Rich posted at 6:31 pm on Thu, Feb 16, 2012.
So pass the law, since everyone there opposes it, no one will carry one and you have the best of all possible worlds.
Dale Whiting posted at 5:46 pm on Thu, Feb 16, 2012.
Imagine what might have happened at Pima Community College if it was legal for Jared Laughner to take his weapon of choice on campus into a class room? As a conservative, I vote to keep things as they are. What was good enough for us last year, is good enough this year, too.