Arizona judge won't stop Jan Brewer from declaring annual 'Day of Prayer'
Brewer tells pastors she, staff rely on prayer
Gov. Jan Brewer talks about politics and prayer to a group of Lutheran ministers in 2009. (Capitol Media Services file photo)
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CSalafia posted at 7:52 am on Tue, Aug 14, 2012.
Good.
Efforts to "de-Godify" everything in society is just as misguided as the efforts to "Godify" everything.
Both violate the 1st Amendment.
American Socialist posted at 10:02 am on Tue, Aug 14, 2012.
Um...no, the last part of you're comment is a violation of the first amendment.
Amendment I
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.
There is no grey area here, no establishment of religion, period.
DrJCA1 posted at 10:19 am on Tue, Aug 14, 2012.
While I find people who are religious quite amusing, they don't bother or offend me. I'm one of those select few in America that tend not to have my snoot in everone else's business. As long as they do not try and force their stuff onto me, I couldn't care less what people do. Sadly, we have become a nation of busybodies and pundits who apparenlty know "what's best for others". To all of you nosy people: mind your own business.
chuckles3 posted at 10:29 am on Tue, Aug 14, 2012.
"There is no grey area here, no establishment of religion, period. "
Brewer is not Congress. She is not making a Law. Which Religion is she establishing exactly? Are you forced to pray or go to jail? Are you forced to pray to Allah?
You Sir are simply ignorant. You are free to practice your own religion, or none at all. You are not free FROM religion. If I Pray in front of you it is not a violation of your Constitutional rights. Sorry.
Engaged Voter posted at 11:02 am on Tue, Aug 14, 2012.
The plaintiffs should have quoted ol' Jesus himself.
Matthew 6:5 And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and churches and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.
6:6 But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.
Personally I have no problem with this, unless it's excessively done on the taxpayer's dime. Other than that, who cares?
One issue I DO have: "They're an opportunity for Arizonans of every race, creed and color to come together seeking wisdom from a higher power" <---Pray all you want, but stop pretending your "higher power" will give you wisdom. Brewer is proof that just ain't happenin'!
Engaged Voter posted at 11:05 am on Tue, Aug 14, 2012.
"If I Pray in front of you it is not a violation of your Constitutional rights."
If you come up and "pray" (scream) in my face, as many Christians do (not to pick on Christians, but I have yet to be accosted by a Jew, Muslim, Buddhist, etc), you are indeed violating my rights. But that's okay...so much as a tiny speck of spittle touches me and I will flatten the idiot and have him charged with assault. Good times!
annab posted at 12:23 pm on Tue, Aug 14, 2012.
The lines between the church and state separation often get blurred. I would rather that our Governor would spend state money on things that have some real value. to all state residents After all this has no value to many of her constituants.
Ben Goren posted at 12:49 pm on Tue, Aug 14, 2012.
"Brewer is not Congress. She is not making a Law."
Sorry, but the Supremacy Clause covers this. Specifically, "This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in pursuance thereof; and all treaties made, or which shall be made, under the authority of the United States, shall be the supreme law of the land; and the judges in every state shall be bound thereby, anything in the constitution or laws of any state to the contrary notwithstanding."
"Which Religion is she establishing exactly?"
Though there is no particular denomination she's promoting, she's clearly establishing the supremacy of that particular deity with the confusingly eponymous name of, "God." The god named God is present in the pantheons of most religions that place some particular importance in at least the first few books of the Bible; Judaism, Christianity, and Islam are the biggest examples. However, many other religions do not recognize any Biblical god by the name of, "God." Hindus, Buddhists, neo-Paganists, and modern aboriginals would be the prime examples -- but the overwhelming majority of historical religions (ancient Greeks, Romans, Egyptians, Teutonics) also don't recognize the God god of the Bible.
"Are you forced to pray or go to jail? Are you forced to pray to Allah?"
Brewer praying in my name in her official capacity to supplicate her favored god is as offensive to me as I assume it would be to you were she, in her official capacity, to ritually sprinkle sanctified bull's blood over a copy of your entry in the voter records in order to help guide you to the true path that Zeus has laid out for you.
And, yes. To somebody not a believer in the Judeo-Christian pantheon, Brewer's prayers are just as bizarre as animal sacrifice. A Christian's spell designed to bend Jesus to the petitioner's will through magic words is no different from a pagan's culinary efforts to do the same to Zeus. If you *really* want bizarre, consider an outsider's take on the Eucharist....
"You Sir are simply ignorant. You are free to practice your own religion, or none at all. You are not free FROM religion."
Eh, no. That's the whole point of the Establishment Clause: that we are, indeed, free from religion should we choose to be. And that most especially applies to whatever religion the particular ruling faction happens to favor.
And, believe me -- this is in your own best interests. We may soon see a Mormon in the White House. Can you imagine the uproar if Romney were to pray in his official capacity in ways that lay bare the doctrinal differences between Mormons and Catholics as clearly as Brewer wants to lay bare the doctrinal differences between Christians and Buddhists?
Not only do any possible pairing of two religions vehemently and irreconcilably disagree on all sorts of fundamental matters, so too do any possible pairings of any two different denominations of the same religion. Obviously so, or else there wouldn't be a schism. Once you let religion into government, you immediately subject the government and the people whom it governs to that exact same internecine bickering -- and that does nobody any good.
Cheers,
b&
Mike McClellan posted at 1:02 pm on Tue, Aug 14, 2012.
Great idea, Guv! Now, let's hold that day on the opening day of each legislative session here in AZ.
Pray for some smidgen of sanity to creep into our House and Senate.
Not easily done -- obviously -- but God does work miracles, after all. Look what's happening to Russell Pearce.
Engaged Voter posted at 1:35 pm on Tue, Aug 14, 2012.
"God does work miracles"
Ooh Mike, such an unsupported, superstitious claim...from a former EDUCATOR?
Shameful...unless it was meant in jest (given the Pearce reference), in which case, carry on!
Patme posted at 3:41 pm on Tue, Aug 14, 2012.
the woman needs a day of prayer. she takes health insurance away from thousands of children and adults, leaving some of them to die. she needs to pray that her government insurance never gets cancelled for her or her messed up in the head son!
American Socialist posted at 4:05 pm on Tue, Aug 14, 2012.
"If I Pray in front of you it is not a violation of your Constitutional rights. Sorry...."
Nope...but...
Jan spending tax payer money on religious activities IS a violation of the 1st Amendment of the bill of rights.
CSalafia posted at 6:48 pm on Tue, Aug 14, 2012.
A declaration of a day of prayer is not a legal establishment of a religion. It's Constitutionality was challenged by the FFRF and, well, they lost because, as the court says "a feeling of alienation cannot suffice as injury".
It is not legislation, there is no compulsion..therefore no 1st Amendment violation.
The FFRF should stick to being upset at Sec. Vilsak making offhand comments about "praying for rain", demanding historical murals in schools be removed, and protesting restaurants that offer church bulletin discounts.
They're simply the opposite side of the "put God back in America" crowd... and just as petty and small.
Engaged Voter posted at 4:34 pm on Wed, Aug 15, 2012.
"and just as petty and small."
As petty and small as your pro-illegal fanclub, CSalafia?
Leon Ceniceros posted at 9:23 pm on Wed, Aug 15, 2012.
Funny how the Socialist, the Liberal, the Progressives, the Commie Wanna-Be's and the Democrats don't mind when Judges rule in favor of a "liberal" question. Like the judge who just ruled that the "1% Tax Initiative" was "substantially" following the Arizona Constitution and ordered it reinstated for the upcoming Election. Now between you and me....isn't a law a law ??? When did "substantially" come into interpreting the Law become the norm ???
prayingwoman71 posted at 4:34 am on Thu, Aug 16, 2012.
We need prayer back in the schools.There might not be as many of our children on drugs and in trouble if someone would take time to pray for them and to help them to understand there is a loving God that loves them and they can talk to him and recieve help from him.Some say we might offend an atheist that doesn't believe in God or we might offend some other religion.What about us that do believe in our Lord?Do we not have the same rights as others.We are offended at people trying to take God out of the USA.But I guess it is ok to offend Christians as long as the atheist,buddhist and other religions are not offended.Oh, let's be sure we don't offend the so called President's ( muslim ) religion he might not like that.I just wish my state of Tennessee had a Governor like Jan Brewer. " Way to go JAN "
CSalafia posted at 8:48 am on Thu, Aug 16, 2012.
@Prayingwoman - Kids can pray in school. There just cannot be mandatory prayer.
Big difference often missed.
Bluepoet posted at 3:24 pm on Thu, Aug 16, 2012.
I'm not worried that the Governor called for a "Day of Prayer"...no, I'm not worried.
Will someone be praying for her, to somehow magically receive the wisdom to step down, a la Palin, in order to dedicate her energies to her ministry, or Fox News, whichever is more profitable?
That might even make an Agnostic like me bend a knee...
Engaged Voter posted at 3:38 pm on Thu, Aug 16, 2012.
"We need prayer back in the schools."
Wow!
So prayingwoman71, you would be okay with your children being forced to pray to Allah, or Vishnu, or some other pagan god?
Or does this praying only apply to YOUR religion?
Oops! Your ignorant bigotry is showing! ;)