Mormons praise Romney for spotlighting the faith
Mitt Romney, Ann Romney
Republican presidential candidate, former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney and his wife Ann, leave the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints after services on Sunday, Sept. 2, 2012 in Wofeboro, N.H. (AP Photo/Evan Vucci)
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Marc B posted at 3:54 pm on Sun, Sep 2, 2012.
Yeah...........too bad he has to be such a liar to try to win the election; that reflects on the Church REALLY WELL with non members, I'm sure................
downtownresident posted at 3:55 pm on Sun, Sep 2, 2012.
It's a cult! "You people" should know that!
No connection to reality, nor common man, woman and child.
Dale Whiting posted at 5:24 pm on Sun, Sep 2, 2012.
All in all, having Mitt Romney run will broaden people's perspective and lessen the notion that we Mormons belong to a cult. "downtownresident" care to define what is and what is not a cult? Careful! You might regret your attempts.
By some definitions, Christians are cult members. I'd define Mormons, particularly committed ones, as optimists, looking ahead for brighter days ahead. I know of no faith which emphasises the latter days and a coming Millenium like we Mormons do. It's not here tomorrow, nor next month, nor next year, but we all need to be prepared. And we need to help others prepare, too. 'Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? This same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven." In other words, "Go get busy, you bums!
az2008 posted at 6:29 pm on Sun, Sep 2, 2012.
Dale, I think the word "cult" is used so often because Mormons are a bit deceptive in their presentation. They use christian-sounding terms as they go door-to-door. They don't disclose too early into the process that they believe G-d has a body of flesh and bones (and therefore isn't omnipresent). Or, that G-d wasn't always G-d. There was a time when he was only "organized matter," like any man. Or, that G-d was once a man living on another planet, worshipping a G-d who brought him into existence as a "sprit child" (from "unorganized matter") like or G-d did us.
The also don't reveal too soon how they ridicule the traditional view of the Trinity. Or, the traditional view of immortal G-d.
I don't think those views beliefs make Mormonism a cult. It's the lack of openness about it.
I was at a prayer and fasting service once. A Mormon took the podium and started talking about how God the father was once a human like us, (and we'll have people worshipping us like we worship him.). Two missionaries were there with one of their new prospective converts. The convert began to exhibit second thoughts. The missionaries converged on her, saying "don't pay attention to that. That's not what we really believe. It will make sense later."
That, has all the hallmarks of a cult.
I've seen it myself *many* times. Mormons will single out some small point (concerning a statement about what they believe) and proclaim "we don't believe that." They're just quibbling over some small point, but they make it sound like they don't believe anything that was said.
They need to present their beliefs very carefully to have them accepted.
Again, that's classic cultish behavior.
Recently the Mormon church spent millions on "I'm Mormon" commercials. The gist of those commercials were "I'm just a normal person."
Anytime you have to spend a fortune to convince people you're normal, it's a pretty good sign that you're not. And, again, it's a classic cult-like behavior.
Your mileage may vary.
LarryCroft posted at 7:02 pm on Sun, Sep 2, 2012.
As a Humanist not influenced by the dogma of the various organized religion groups, perhaps I have a more objective view of Mormons than most people.
I live in the Snowflake/St. Johns area of Arizona. I have done business with Mormons with zero regrets. Even had a Mormon general contractor build a garage on a handshake. He did a high quality job.
Mormon children are very well behaved. Better than, I dare say, most children. The Mormons I know live in a way that I suspect most people would like to emulate.
I cannot speak ill of any religion or cult that produces such fine people.
az2008 posted at 7:42 pm on Sun, Sep 2, 2012.
Larry, I would say the same thing. Most Mormons I've been involved with have a very strong sense of values. More than most Christians, I'd say. I think it's Mormonism's emphasis on salvation by works rather than faith. Christians tend to believe they're saved by faith, and then live however they like.
asuaguila posted at 11:27 pm on Sun, Sep 2, 2012.
1st post was deleted. Again, these articles are not news, but free campaigning for Romney.
Bingo6 posted at 6:05 am on Mon, Sep 3, 2012.
First of all all religions are mystical cults, some more mainstream than others, second American values and well behaved children and family devotion actually exists outside the religious realm, but what bothers me the most is how easily manipulated so-called family value christian cults so easily dictate to their imprisoned members who to vote for and how easily they distort their values by hypocritically taking away any free will and critical thinking processes from their members by dictating their agenda to them.
For some of you Mormons to even suggest that your family values are better than my familie's values are simply ridiculous lies and cult dictated distortions.
downtownresident posted at 8:20 am on Mon, Sep 3, 2012.
Dale,
Nothing personal, you sound like an intelligent enough guy.
There is so much about your cult not to like.
All of a sudden, high ranking Mormons have decided to alter your cult to try to present it in a more mainstream way. Not to tear down the cloak of secrecy surrounding your practices, but simply to try to put one of your cult members in the White House.
"OK everybody, let's all have a Coke/Pepsi and prove that we're just like everybody else." It'll help brother Romney.
So many of your practices are so outrageous as to be unthinkable.
Posthumously baptizing dead Jews? Without the dead person's family even know it? What's up with that? Must be money to be made, somehow.
And, how about those temples? Billions of dollars being pumped into shrines to what?
And why do you need those solid gold oxen holding up your sacred baptismal pools in the basements? Then there's the priceless works of art. I don't get it.
What's up with all the secrecy? I toured the Mesa Temple in the 70's when it had been rebuilt and saw this myself. Our guide told us about the millions of dollars worth of gold and art work. I didn't make this up.
Then there's all those kids. I have a Mormon neighbor on one side that has built secret rooms in the attic of their house to accommodate the 3, or is it 4 generations of families living there. Two houses down the street, our Mormon neighbor dug a full basement under his house, after it was built, in secret. I doubt that it is a root cellar, do you? Are they paying their fair share of taxes on these houses?
I won't even go into a discussion of the underwear. It's so over the top as to be laughable. Well, not really laughable, more like SICK. And so secret.
Your concept of an afterlife is tribal. How can you believe all that garbage if you claim to worship a christian deity?
Wasn't the Bible good enough for you? What's up with this book your guy wrote?
Finally, I have to tell you that some of the things I've read about your founder leads me to believe that he was on cocaine when he wrote his best stuff.
We won't waste time on the migration from Illinois, because you were "misunderstood", and the stand-off with the Feds in Utah because you guys wanted many wives to be sure that you got the best planet when you died. The Fancher massacre up in Utah? The Short Creek debacle?
No wonder you all feel persecuted. Maybe you should.
Bottom line, Mitt is a Mormon. He will not be the next president of the US. There aren't enough of you yet, to stack the deck.
I lived for 6 months in Cedar City a few years ago. That was an experience.
The current effort to humanize Mormonism is doomed to fail, because your beliefs are so outrageous.
az2008 posted at 11:34 am on Mon, Sep 3, 2012.
Downtown, you seem to point out it's different (very different) and therefore wrong/weird/perverse/sick, etc. But, that's what people did back around 35 AD until 360 AD. "These guys believe someone died and rose again! They believe they're saved by his blood! They believe in 3 gods, yet they say there's only 1! Smoking crack, I tell you!"
So, I personally don't put any value judgements on Mormon beliefs. Being different isn't wrong. If it were we'd never have had Christianity.
What I find contemptible is the way they go door to door, being less than transparent about their beliefs. When you initially encounter a missionary all you'll hear are the traditional Christian terms. Once you've acclimated to that level of dialogue, you'll start learning about how "Father" and "Trinity" and "atonement" are fundamentally different.
When a Presbyterian invites you to their church, they don't play coy about how they believe the church's leadership should be structured differently than other denominations. When you attend a Pentacostal church, they don't hold their "talking in tongues" in secret.
All the Christian denominations have *slight* variations of emphasis on Biblical proofs. It can reach significant levels. For example, a congregational church with no formal structure compared to Roman Catholicism. Or, Calvanism (salvation by faith taken to the extreme) compared to RC'ism.
But, those groups don't try to hide their beliefs. They don't try to win people over with generalized semantics. Perhaps because their beliefs aren't *that* different.
It's Mormonism that is uniquely different, going all the way to the fundamental nature of G_d. Was their a time that G_d didn't exist? Mormons say there was. (They'll play word games and say G_d existed as "unorganized matter" because matter is eternal. But, you and I existed eternally as "organized matter" too.). According to Mormonism, there is a time when G_d didn't exist as G_d. A being with greater power (at that time) organized G_d into a spirit child (as our G_d supposedly did us). That child lived as a man on another planet worshipping his own Father. He progressed to being G_d. And, we can too.
When I saw that's "out there." I'm not ridiculing Mormonism. It's more to say "that's why Mormonism doesn't qualify as just another Christian faith. It denies the very essence of G_d which has been standard, as an Article of Faith, going back to 100 AD.
There's nothing wrong with being different. If there were, we wouldn't have the Christian faith which split off from J_daism. What's wrong (IMO) is hiding the differences. Being candid about them and insisting "we don't understand why people say we're not Christian."
That's when it starts to sound like a "cult." That's when the church has to spend millions on television advertising trying to convince people "we're just like you."
To me, the best way to describe the fundamental difference between Christianity and Mormonism is: "The bible says G_d created man in his own image. Mormonism returned the favor -- by giving G_d a body of flesh and bones (even in heaven), and all the limitations which come with that form: the inability to be omnipresent, omnipotent, eternal, immutable) and proposing that we can be worshiped by our own creation some day.
I don't really care that that's significantly different. (Worship a rock for all I care. It's a free country.). The problem is that Mormonism isn't *forthright* about that stuff.
And there's *a lot* of "stuff." Like, when Brigham taught that Adam was G_d. Or, one of the recent church Presidents taught that every biblical reference to elohim (translated G_d) referred to the Father, while every reference to J_hovah (translated all uppercase G_D) was the Son. Or, the way Joseph Smith claimed to translate an Egyption papyrus (a common burial document) into the Book of Abraham, sometimes expanding one hieroglyphic into an entire paragraph of material completely unrelated to the glyph's meaning.
I wouldn't say that stuff's kooky. It's a free country, believe whatever you want. My disappointment with Mormonism is how they try to redefine history and say that stuff didn't happen. And, in the same way, try to pave over their different beliefs, presenting them as no different than mainstream Christianity.
IMO, that's when it sounds like a cult. And, not something to be proud of.
downtownresident posted at 11:57 am on Mon, Sep 3, 2012.
AZ,
We've progressed beyond 360 AD. Secret societies have mostly died, due to reality.
Mormons and Masons are some of the only organizations that have secret rituals.
Their PR campaign leaves me cold.
No reasonable person would believe that Mitt Romney has any connection with the real world. Do you?
Think I'll have a beer. There's no caffeine in beer, is there?
[beam][beam][beam][beam][sad][beam][beam]
az2008 posted at 2:26 pm on Mon, Sep 3, 2012.
Secret society is a good term. Mormonism has parallels to Scientology in terms of the internally understood terminology, denial of everything to the outside world, and rationalizing these two seemingly contradictory faces as "we're anointed with a higher understanding and spirituality. We're actually protecting those who lack our advanced awareness from hearing things which require spiritual preparation to understand."
Different topic. It's amazing to me how the Republican party went from being dominated by Christian fundamentalists (the era of Moral Majority, back around 1990) to nominating a Mormon for President. Those fundamentalists were very vocal in the 90s about Mormonism being not merely a cult, but "a perversion of the Christian gospel." They must be struggling with this situation. Vote for a man who proudly belongs to a religion which says Christianity is wrong (and Mormons have the "restored" truth). Or, go liberal?
I need to start watching the Christian tv shows to see what they're saying. I can't imagine how they're going to reconcile this. Will they take a softer view on Mormonism? Or, will they sit out the election as "true believers" whom the "world" has forsaken?
To me, this is really interesting. I understand their mindset. They tend to be very activist. But, at a spiritual level, I don't think they can go that far. I see them circling the wagons and reverting to Biblical passages about "separating ourselves from worldly things."
This really reminds me of '96 when Republicans handed a second term to the hugely unpopular Bill Clinton (by nominating Bob Dole, the epitomy of "establishment" and "insider" habits.). And then 2008, when they nominated McCain just 6-9 months after he proposed amnesty for illegal immigrants.
I don't understand the Republican party.
downtownresident posted at 10:37 am on Tue, Sep 4, 2012.
It's all about power.
Carl Rove can explain it.
We'd nominate the devil, himself, if he could beat Obama.[beam]
Bluepoet posted at 2:29 pm on Tue, Sep 4, 2012.
When it comes to any religion, skepticsm is healthy. It means one is not blindly following the dogma. To find faith, for oneself, is not such a bad thing.
What I find disturbing, about Mormons, and their happiness with Mitt Romney, is not that they celebrate one of their own running for President. That's pretty understandable. What is disturbing is that they have chosen to be political, at the same time, when, this has not been the case, in years past.
When I grew up, in Mormon household, we had members who were of different political parties. There was no message handed down, by the Leaders, on the subject of political leanings. Indeed, we were to be living "in the world", but not "of the world".
I rejected the Mormon faith, when I was around 13 yrs. old, for my own personal reasons. I don't know what has changed, within the ranks of the active members, but every single one of my family members has suddenly turned into rabid, anti-Obama, right wing nuts. Even the ones who used to be firm Democrats. It isn't because the Democrat party changed...it's because the conservative leaders of their Church have decided to enter politics, on a national scale...
There's a reason why the State Seal of Utah, is a beehive, and it's not because of industriousness (although Mormons are that). It's because they are becoming more and more hive-like, in mentality. It's no longer a choice to vote anything other than Republican, and be a Mormon.
...that is what is most disturbing...along with any other religion getting involved in politics--en masse.
DavidNichols posted at 11:30 am on Wed, Sep 5, 2012.
"America is great because it is good, when it ceases to be good, it ceases to be great"
Alex De Tocqueville
The January 2008 start of the E-verify Law, and the I.C.E. Deportation/Incarceration Programs began at the exact same time as "The Great Recession", THe Foreclosure Crisis", and "Our new National Deficit".
Hummm???
Attrition has crashed Amerca, and Persecuted Millions of Good Hard working Immigrants, and their Legal Citizen Children, and Families!
Mr>. Romney "Attrition" is Not GOOD!
This is our I.C.E.'d Economy!
I.C.E. "Put the Car in the Ditch"!
Wake up?
To: Good.