Political signs are displayed in the entry of the parking lot of a polling facility in Mesa, Tuesday, November 2, 2010 for the mid-term election.
Current users sign in here.
LEGAL Latinos, LEGAL Asians, LEGAL et al, don't have to leave. They just have to be here LEGALLY. If you are not, then YOU DON'T BELONG HERE!!!
And for those that can't read English, I'll have it translated to reflect the language used by the highest majority of ILLEGAL ALIENS ancestry:
JURÍDICO Latinos, Asiáticos LEGAL, JURÍDICA et al, no tiene que irse. Sólo tienen que estar aquí legalmente. Si no, entonces USTED NO PERTENECEN AQUÍ!!!
abimopectore, I can see that at least two of your first posts are gone. Can't see why though. This does make any meaningful dialog impossible. What I was trying to say is that I don't believe the articles assertion that the growing number a Latinos will tip the balance of power to the democrats. I also do not believe that republicans promote largely anti-Latino sentiments, and when we finally get this illegal immigration under control, I believe the Latino population will come to see the party as having the better platform for everyone as they seem to have in Florida. Of course, and you can spin this any way you like, I think the Latinos in Florida are much brighter than the mestizos we have here in AZ. Jose agrees. [beam]
I can see from your responses and the fact that my previous comments were deleted that this will never lead to any meaningful discussion.
"I told a Latino friend I work with what you said about him being highly insulated from the majority of the Latino population. Jose says to tell you he is highly offended by your assertion."
Your friend is ONE person. I did not state or claim that ALL Latinos viewed Republicans negatively. Your friend would be a perfect counter example to this fact. What was stated in this article is that 2 out of 3 Latino voters did NOT vote for Republicans. It is not claiming that ALL Latinos are voting against Republicans; but, on the contrary, it is stating that the voting population in this group is growing and that in a few years the number of Latinos not voting for Republicans will be large enough so that if Republicans continue to promote largely anti-Latino sentiments as expressed by "Republicans" in this article, they run the risk of not being elected. It is simple math that is running against this Republican strategy.
"Does this then mean that the violent crimes that went down are from illegal criminals on other illegals?"
Possibly, but as stated, the reasons/causes are not clear nor verifiable.
"I've also heard that violent crimes are in decline since Sheriff Arpaio began his sweeps."
There is no doubt that fear has swept certain segments of the population because of these sweeps. It's unfortunate that it's been more hot air on behalf of the Sheriff since his sweeps are truly not capturing the number of illegals as claimed for ALL the wasted manpower instead of focusing on addressing real crime issues. I'll grant you that this opinion is highly debated but I don't put lots of mustard on this Sheriff's efforts. The bad guys don't fear this guy as much as the Department of Public Safety or other law enforcement agencies that truly target the serious criminals.
"Only 34% of AZ Latinos voted republican? Are they all highly insulated from the majority of the Latino population?"
Nope... but they are not the majority and any one that can do addition will realize this. These numbers don't reflect the majority which is the real problem for future elections. This does not bode well for the GOP, which as I stated previously, is the reason for this article.
"Latinos will start seeing through the delusions of the wealth redistribution democrats."
What does this have to do with the article? Your bringing in extraneous issues that are not addressing the specific claims of this article. The Democrats are no better but the Republicans have hardly made it very welcoming for Latino voters either, and I can understand this completely, since they haven't had to in order to win here in Arizona. Again, I'll state the obvious, the article is claiming that this will have to change as the voting Latino population grows because Republicans won't be able to easily dismiss the 60% of Latinos that are not currently voting for them, because they won't win without them.
"By the time we have a democratic Latino governor, if we ever do, I'll most likely be smoldering in the ground somewhere. So who cares."
And finally you express your true colors. I didn't think it would take long since the points you argue in your comments don't address the voting dynamics that are being expressed in this article. Good luck to you.
Another "survey" skewed to prove the biased point of the people paying for it.Reps or Dems...Anglo, Latino, Korean or South African...they all do it.Stop jumping at "data" which is so clearly biased and is aimed at raising everyone's blood pressure.ILLEGAL, Crime-affiliated people are the issue.
"However, there was a substantial drop in serious assaults following the announcement of the policy and the initiation of immigration checks at ADC in July 2007." "but we caution that some of this drop may have been due to a reduction in reporting of assaults by illegal immigrants." Does this then mean that the violent crimes that went down are from illegal criminals on other illegals? They then go on to say this may not be due to the policy. I read it and can see maybe they are right. I also see the numbers of declining violence. Maybe and maybe not, but the numbers don't lie. I've also heard that violent crimes are in decline since Sheriff Arpaio began his sweeps. Although no real figures have been tallied, advocates of the sweeps say their value is largely in discouraging illegal immigrants from remaining in the community. That can't be bad for anyone.
Only 34% of AZ Latinos voted republican? Are they all highly insulated from the majority of the Latino population? They are people who want a better life for themselves and see illegal immigration as an obstruction to that end. I think as time goes on more Latinos will start seeing through the delusions of the wealth redistribution democrats. In any case, this article is a prediction of the authors wishes and really nothing more. By the time we have a democratic Latino governor, if we ever do, I'll most likely be smoldering in the ground somewhere. So who cares.
"I never heard any republicans say we need to fear illegal aliens"
I don't believe they do. The Republicans will state their position to create fear among the "voting public." This is the point in doing the things this way.
As for the study you cite, you should read all the minute details. However, I'll point you to page 81 which provides a quick summary of its findings:
"To summarize, we find that the policy has not affected most types of crime in PWC, in large part because illegal immigrants account for a small to modest share of offenders for most types of crime. However, there was a substantial drop in serious assaults following the announcement of the policy and the initiation of immigration checks at ADC in July 2007. We attribute this primarily to the publicity surrounding the adoption of the policy in its original form, but we caution that some of this drop may have been due to a reduction in reporting of assaults by illegal immigrants. That being said, the policy in its current form appears to be a reasonable way of targeting illegal immi- grants who are serious offenders—a policy goal on which there is broad agreement."
The above statement would contradict your statement, "so maybe we should fear illegal immigration," and it should compel to your revise your assessment of this statement since it's not apparent that the drop in crime is clearly understood.
"I know a lot of Hispanics and they are part of the greater Latino population here in AZ. They aren't insulated as you say. They hear their people quote their leaders that say republicans are white supremacist and racist, but they're smart enough to see how illegal immigration is hurting everyone including those Latinos born here. Seems to be that the born in America Latinos see things differently than the immigrant Latinos."
The statistics don't lie. The East Valley Tribune article above stated, "For the third straight cycle, Latinos preferred Democrats over Republicans by a nearly 2-to-1 margin, 64 percent to 34 percent, according to exit polling." So I don't which Latinos you're speaking with, but they aren't the majority. You're just not talking to most of them.
"There is ample evidence that shows the effect of unregulated illegal immigration that hurts us all."
There are problems no doubt, but I'll point you to the University of Virginia study you cited in your comment, because if you read it completely and can maintain an objective perspective, it's not what you're claiming in terms of "ample evidence." Here it is:
"Latinos who do not know how to read or write English well and get all their info from what I see as racist leaders or who are listening to their socialistic professors spew redistribution of wealth lies, will never vote for republicans."
Again, I can only cite the statistical facts. The majority of Latinos, including educated ones as you state, ARE NOT voting for republicans. Finally, I don't believe that Latinos will be the voting majority for some time, hence you're not going to see candidates in the immediate future running on issues that affect solely Latinos; however, I do believe that Latinos will become the kingmakers in future elections because I don't believe a candidate will be able to win unless they capture a significant portion of this vote.
abimopectore I told a Latino friend I work with what you said about him being highly insulated from the majority of the Latino population. Jose says to tell you he is highly offended by your assertion. He also says he is unaware of a republican candidate who used anything but the truth concerning illegal immigration. He is a republican that supports anti illegal candidates, and he does not like seeing his state being over run by Mexicans. Please if you can show us evidence of fear tactics used by any candidate.
When whole campaigns are run on the premise of fear? I never heard any republicans say we need to fear illegal aliens, but a University of Virginia study found that, since Prince William County in Virginia became more strict in dealing with illegal immigrants in 2007, the jurisdiction has enjoyed a substantial drop in crime - including a 32 percent drop in violent crime - while neighboring Fairfax County has seen crime levels remain steady, so maybe we should fear illegal immigration.
I know a lot of Hispanics and they are part of the greater Latino population here in AZ. They aren't insulated as you say. They hear their people quote their leaders that say republicans are white supremacist and racist, but they're smart enough to see how illegal immigration is hurting everyone including those Latinos born here. Seems to be that the born in America Latinos see things differently than the immigrant Latinos.
Those unnecessary and unsubstantiated claims by those who practice the politics of fear in order to get your votes are not spewing lies as you suggest. There is ample evidence that shows the effect of unregulated illegal immigration that hurts us all.
Latinos who do not know how to read or write English well and get all their info from what I see as racist leaders or who are listening to their socialistic professors spew redistribution of wealth lies, will never vote for republicans.
As for the Latino population outpacing other groups you may have a point. Mexico has the highest rate of population growth in the world, and the only Latinos that have reversed that rate are well educated and wealthy enough to see the advantage of a smaller family. Those figures don't change when they cross the border. As to what the future holds, who knows.
"The only difference between the republican party and Latinos is illegal immigration."
I beg to differ on this one. When whole campaigns are run on the premise of fear that enable folks to freely comment like they do on this board as well as other newspapers in Arizona, you'd realize that there is definitely a greater problem than what you're claiming.
"Every Latino that I know is against illegal immigration."
It's pretty obvious from your statement you're speaking to ones that are highly insulated from the majority of the Latino population. The statistics don't support your claim. I know plenty of Latinos that are highly educated that don't take the position you're stating. In fact, I would argue that they take a more nuanced approach that recognizes both sides of the issue and clearly understand the politics of fear that is creating unnecessary and unsubstantiated claims by those who practice the politics of fear in order to get your votes.
"The only people using fear as a tool to affect voting are democrats like US Senator Harry Reid. He fooled Nevada Latinos into thinking a republican senator would somehow be deleterious to them."
I think Angle did this to herself. Or better yet, I'll give you an article from where you can see that her own campaign did her in more than anything:
Besides Angle had many more problems with Latinos then you're willing to admit. Here's another article that will enlighten you:
"The only Latinos that need fear a republican majority are the ones in this country illegally."
Latinos don't fear Republicans. You're right about this. They just don't vote for them in the numbers they'll need in order to keep winning in Arizona in the not so distant future as clearly this article states, which was the point of the article by the way.
Why "ship them by UPS" when you can do it overnight by FedEx?
abimopectore, I don't see your point at all. The only difference between the republican party and Latinos is illegal immigration, and Latinos are increasingly changing their minds about that issue. Every Latino that I know is against illegal immigration. They are not bigots. Educated Latinos can see the obvious dangers of the continuing illegal immigration. The only people using fear as a tool to affect voting are democrats like US Senator Harry Reid. He fooled Nevada Latinos into thinking a republican senator would somehow be deleterious to them. The only Latinos that need fear a republican majority are the ones in this country illegally.
There can never be any constructive commentary about hispanics without negatively expressing thoughts that really do not address the crux of the article, which is that their voting preference will indubitably affect future elections regardless of the bigotry that is commonly used in Arizona politics. This is something that the Republican party or any party that utilizes fear and bigotry in order to get votes will have to address if it wishes to continue to remain in power.
Stop the whine. Your own culture supports the very worst of human beings...the Coyotes, Cartels, the Sinaloas and the Zetas. Your kids won't march to protest that Drop House or the 15 Illegals crammed into a van rolling on I-10, or the little girls sold (by parents) or kidnapped into prostitution. Instead you brainwash them with fantasies of an Azteca Nation and teach them to isolate themselves in their filthy, crime ridden barrios.This is NOT a back street of Matamoras or Nogales. Educated Latinos are welcome into all aspects of AMERICAN life. We just refuse to see your Mexican flag above the US one, or grant you one more right that the rest of us enjoy.
It is a big problem or will be,they multiply like rabbits.And a lot of the politicos smooze them for the legal ones votes.
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