Even before the mass shooting in Tucson led to calls for rethinking mental health policies and the tone of political rhetoric, Arizona’s lawmakers set the stage for a debate over gun laws.
More pointedly, a debate to make those laws more lenient by lifting many weapons restrictions at college and university campuses.
One measure lawmakers will consider soon allows faculty members to carry a concealed weapon as long as they have a state-issued permit to do so. A more expansive bill says colleges can’t forbid concealed weapons on campus if the carrier has a permit. The permit requires a background check and some training. The bills were introduced in December for the legislative session that began this week.
Only police can carry firearms now on campus, but supporters of the bills say their proposals would give students and faculty a chance to defend themselves if shooter took aim.
Gun rights advocates made the same argument following mass shootings like 2007’s Virginia Tech shooting, which left 32 dead.
Arizona’s current gun restrictions make sitting ducks of law-abiding students and professors, supporters say, as a shooter could have finished an act by the time armed police arrive.
Colleges strongly oppose measures to ease restrictions. Educators aren’t trained to defend themselves and shouldn’t be expected to also take on law enforcement duties, said Barry Vaughan, a spokesman for the Maricopa Colleges Faculty Association.
He doesn’t believe an armed professor at one end of a classroom would necessarily be in a position to save lives if a gunman where firing from the other side of the room.
“What about all the students who would be in the crossfire?” Vaughan said. “All of the scenarios that one could think of are just horrifying.”
The police response could be even more chaotic if students or teachers were armed, said Vaughan, a philosophy and religious studies professor at Mesa Community College. He argues the initial response to a shooting could be slowed as law enforcement tried to determine which of the armed people triggered the attack and which ones were acting in defense.
The bills were filed in December by Rep. Jack Harper, R-Surprise. HB 2001 would allow faculty to carry concealed firearms with a concealed weapons permit while HB 2014 lets anybody with a permit be armed on campuses.
A House Republican spokesman did not return calls to comment on the bills. The National Rifle Association wouldn’t weigh in on the issue in light of the Saturday shooting that claimed six lives and injured 13, including Rep. Gabrielle Giffords.
“At this time anything other than prayers for the victims and their families would be inappropriate,” an NRA spokeswoman wrote in an e-mail Thursday.
Vaughan expects the momentum will continue to lift Arizona’s gun restrictions.
“I honestly don’t think that the tragedy of the attempted assassination in Tucson is going to have much of a productive impact on the gun control debate,” he said.
Arizona has lifted numerous gun restrictions over the years, such as a 2009 law that allows bar patrons to be armed as long as they don’t drink. Last year, Arizona allowed residents to carry a concealed weapon without a permit. Lawmakers have tried for years to lift gun restrictions but had been blocked by vetoes from then-Gov. Janet Napolitano, a Democrat. Republican Gov. Jan Brewer signed previously blocked bills into law, and gun bills stand an ever greater chance of success given the Legislature now has even more conservative lawmakers than previously.
Brewer got an A+ rating last spring from the National Rifle Association during her campaign for governor.
Also last year, the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence gave Arizona one of its lowest ratings, just two points out of a possible 100. Those points are in jeopardy, as they were awarded because Arizona’s colleges weren’t prohibited from banning guns on their campuses.
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Contact writer: (480) 898-6548 or ggroff@evtrib.com
az2008 posted at 6:39 pm on Thu, Jan 13, 2011.
At a minimum, faculty should be encouraged to permitted and carry. Students should be afforded a place to check their guns for secure storage.
I'm concerned that colleges essentially disarm students during their entire trip from home to school (and back). I can understand the school's prerogative to control behavior on campus. But, by prohibiting firearm possession *and not providing a check-in storage* essentially places students in danger off campus. It makes them easy targets. Any criminal looking to rob someone of their laptop would naturally target a college student riding a bike or waiting at a bus stop.
rrjenn posted at 9:50 pm on Thu, Jan 13, 2011.
I can't really see any reason why both students and faculty shouldn't be allowed to carry concealed at colleges if they are trained and have a CCW license. If they want to go to the trouble of getting a license then why not let them carry? What about going to a college is any different than going to the grocery store or anywhere else they might choose to go? I have a CCW license and wouldn't care to check it anywhere I go. If a business doesn't allow open carry I tend not to go there even though I rarely open carry. It's a silly law that prevents honest people from being able to defend themselves. Criminals will still have guns and do not obey gun laws, and they tend to go where they will not be confronted by armed citizens. That is why FBI data show a decrease in violent crime as gun purchases increase. Don't let the gun grabbers fool you. They know the truth yet still wish to disarm you. United States Senator Dianne Feinstein of California never leaves home without several bodyguards armed with fully automatic weapons yet always votes to disarm the public. What does she know that she doesn't want you to know? Perhaps she knows why the founding fathers gave us the 2nd amendment. Perhaps they knew that we the public might one day need to defend ourselves from the tyranny of government. It was important to them. Heck it is the 2nd amendment right after the 1st amendment right to free speech they must have known how important it was. Don't let these people try to scare you into cages for your own protection.
flagtrax posted at 7:36 am on Fri, Jan 14, 2011.
Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword. - Matthew 26:52
Edited by staff.
Dale Whiting posted at 2:46 pm on Fri, Jan 14, 2011.
Ok, let's have a look at the logic behind all of these arguments. One side says that they would allow "faculty members to carry a concealed weapon as long as they have a state-issued permit to do so." And others on that same side say "colleges can’t forbid concealed weapons on campus if the carrier has a permit."
The logical extension of this pro guns argument [the slippery slope prespective] is to rid the entire state of gun controll laws. That surely would open up the doors to Virginia Tech sorts of incidents everywhere. For if one cannot be forbid to carry on campus, surely no public place would be off bounds, perhaps not even post offices!
The other side" strongly opposes measures to ease restrictions. Educators aren’t trained to defend themselves and shouldn’t be expected to also take on law enforcement duties."
Now to apply some facts to these opinions.
Just look at what almost happen in that Tucson Safeway's parking lot. A young man carrying a loaded side arm, hearing shots fired in the parking lot from his position inside a Walgrens, removed the safety and ran outdoors, pistol drawn, where he spotted a man with a pistol in hand standing near a small crowd.
What would a trained officer have done? He would have drawn his revolver, and loudly shouted both to identify himself and to issue a lawful order to put down the weapon. You know "Police, drop the weapon now or I will shoot!" to which any one but a fool would respond by putting the pistol down and perhaps placing their hands high up into the air in total submission.
But did this armed miliciaman in Tucson do that? No, he wrestled the pistol away from the man before onlookers could tell him that he'd attacked the wrong guy. The shooter was on the ground. Had this man thought the youth was a co-conspirator, surely a duel would have been fought! And remember, even with training no militiaman can issue lawful orders, none!
This young man has admitted that he might have shot the man holding that pistol, had he met resistance and now realizes that he was darn lucky that he did not.
Where in order to maintain a well ordered militia, we have an individual right to bear arms, we also have responsibilities which go along with those rights, responsibilities far too many gun rights advocates fail to appreciate. I cite that young man in Tucson for proof. For afterward in his inteview, when asked about his decision to carry a pistol, he still maintained that he knew what he was doing! He did not!
Lord, grant us all the knowledge to know what we do know to do and to know what we do not know to do, and the wisdow to know the difference between these two! And pray that our legislators know how to not go overboard in making changes to our current laws which take us closer to perilous edges. It may be time to take a step or two back. This would be the True Conservative approach.
Slabside posted at 4:04 pm on Fri, Jan 14, 2011.
Dale says, "Ok, let's have a look at the logic behind all of these arguments." What a laugh! "Dale" and "Logic" go together like "Jumbo" and 'Shrimp". "Hot Water" and "Heater". "Military" and Intelligence".
EmperorSmith posted at 6:39 pm on Fri, Jan 14, 2011.
oxymoron
EmperorSmith posted at 6:48 pm on Fri, Jan 14, 2011.
this is not scripture. If soul needs defense of evil against that are lost should I not be aloud to have that such defense.
rrjenn posted at 8:23 pm on Fri, Jan 14, 2011.
Slab, Dale Witless never uses logic to form arguments. Unless you count pretzel logic. You know, the kind that twists and turns in on itself. The idiot says that allowing guns on campus would create Virginia Tech like sorts of incidents everywhere. Hey Dale, guns were banned at Virgina Tech in case you forgot.
Hey Dale, I carry everyday, where ever I go that permits me to carry. Do you suppose if we gun permit toting maniacs could walk into a post office or a school campus, we would start a gun fight anymore than if we went into any other place that permits it?
Zamudio, the guy you are talking about, never pulled his 9mm from it's holster. One of the men who had tackled the shooter had taken away the shooter's gun. Zamudio thought he was the shooter. Zamudio just grabbed the man by the wrist and forced the muzzle to the ground. Fortunately, the guy didn't offer any resistance or he might have got shot. Dale you never do get the facts straight so STFU!
There are way too many gun prohibitions already and some need to go like the college ban. Of course, I for one would vote for a total ban on gun carry for all idiots named Dale Witless who do not have the common sense God gave a stare into the headlights deer.
rrjenn posted at 8:31 pm on Fri, Jan 14, 2011.
Here Dale Witless, read about it before cr@pping out your mouth anymore. http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2011/01/09/20110109gabrielle-giffords-arizona-shooting-morning.html