State lawmakers are weighing whether to let those who have insurance to pay for injuries their dogs may cause ignore county leash laws and homeowner association rules.
Legislation crafted by Sen. Lori Klein, R-Anthem, would say that county ordinances which now require dogs in public parks and on public lands to be on a leash do not apply if the owner has at least $50,000 worth of liability coverage. Klein said there is no reason that owners of responsible, well-behaved dogs should not be allowed to let them run free.
But Klein is specifically annoyed by leash law rules of homeowner associations. And she said her legislation, SB 1065, would preclude HOAs from citing homeowners under rules that forbid a dog from sitting, unleashed, in an unfenced front yard.
The idea, though, ran into opposition at a Wednesday hearing of the Senate Committee on Government Reform, from law enforcement and animal control officers. Even. Sen. Frank Antenori, R-Tucson, questioned the wisdom of her plan.
And Klein, who already watered down her measure so it did not apply to city parks, could be forced to make even more changes in her plan if she hopes to make it law.
Klein said leash laws -- and HOA regulations in particular -- are sometimes overly aggressively enforced.
"I've had several of my constituents come to me about the fact that little old grandmother with her little Chihuahua is out with the dog, the dog gets off leash and she's fined,'' Klein said. She said 25 percent of fines levied by HOAs are for off-leash dogs.
"Most of it is very silly,'' Klein said.
She figures that having liability insurance against injuries and damages caused by animals shows an owner is responsible enough to have a pet off leash.
"If the dog is under control, he should be allowed to play (in the park) like a dog,'' she said.
But Phoenix Police Lt. Mark Cousins told committee members that insurance is not the answer.
"Public safety is always best served by prevention as opposed to compensation,'' he said. Cousins said leash laws protect not only the general public but the animals themselves.
"Even good dogs that are under control can become uncontrolled under certain circumstances,'' he said. "I would assume even your well-controlled dogs, if my 4-year-old hit him with a toy or something, which is possible, they could become uncontrolled.''
Rodrigo Silva, director of Maricopa County Animal Care and Control, said Klein's proposed exemption from leash laws is flawed.
"It opens the door for bad owners to acquire an insurance (policy) and then be allowed to have their dogs at large, even if they are not under control,'' he told lawmakers.
Klein asked if Silva would be less opposed to her plan if the measure were crafted to say that leashes are unnecessary only if an animal is trained and under control. Silva said that is not the answer, questioning whether there could be a legally enforceable definition of "trained and under control.''
"And even under control dogs, given the right environment, may get out of control,'' he added.
Even if that could be resolved, Silva said the legislation creates new hurdles for animal control officers, as nothing in the proposal actually requires the dog owner to carry around the insurance policy. He said that could force his officers, when dealing with an off-leash dog, to have to follow an owner back home to find the paperwork.
jezzabella posted at 8:48 am on Thu, Jan 26, 2012.
Of course, leave it to Lori Klein, the gun toting, drunk driving, state Senator to be able to look the parents of a mauled child in the eye and say, "Well, they paid for the bills for the plastic surgery, didn't they?"
mesateacher posted at 9:46 am on Thu, Jan 26, 2012.
This is a dangerous, dumb proposal. But what else would you expect from a dangerous, dumb person like Lori Klein? What's wrong with so many right-wingers in this state? A lady with a chihuahua was fined? Good! I've been bitten by "nice" chihuahuas off the leash. A neighbor had a pet cat mauled to death by two dogs who were left out front. Yes, the offender had insurance, but so what? The beloved cat was still dead. Tell you what Lori: you move into a neighborhood with rottweilers, pit bulls, and other potentially dangerous dogs, all off their leashes, and see how long you or your kids or your pets last. Is it any wonder that more and more people vote D in this state? You Rs are a bunch of idiots.
clkowal posted at 9:47 am on Thu, Jan 26, 2012.
Are you kidding me!? I love my dog as if she were a child, but I think having her on a leash when I'm out with her is in her best interest. She might run off & get hurt. But you have got to be joking with this legislation. With all that is wrong with Arizona, education funds being cut, arts programs & phys ed being eliminated, why is dog with or without leashes newsworthy. Education should be numero uno! I am smart enough to keep my own dog safe, but I can't fund all that AZ needs right now.
Dale Whiting posted at 10:06 am on Thu, Jan 26, 2012.
Why is any discussion of leash laws is insane? People have owned dogs since long before we arrived at English Common law allowing for the carrying of weapons for self defense! Surely this matter should have been settled centuries ago!
Yes, under certain circumstances some dogs will attack, attack other dogs and other animals including human beings! I know my dog. If you're water soluable, he can lick you to death. And if you scratch him behind the ears, he's likely to follow you home. He barks at the sound of a door bell in his attempt to get the door opened so he can rush out to greet whomever is there, this to beg for a scratch behind the ears.
In my city, my dog having been trained, when we're out on walks all I need do is carry a leash, this in case something does come up. Recently another dog escaped his home and wandered into the park. There my dog and I made friends, then I leased the dog, took him home, read his tags and called his owner. The three of us went for another walk, taking that dog back to his home!
In the private park near my home, my dog runs up to everyone he meets looking for, even begging for those ear scratches. He's smart and has become especially good at getting attention from the ladies. He's got most all of them well trained! Hit him, and he backs away in shock. But keep him on a leash and he'd rather have stayed home.
Those junior high bikers who run rampant in the park do more damage to the landscape than all other damages combined. So why not legislate against bicycles in the park? But if you must do dog legislation, try leavying heavy civil fines for those of us dog owners who do not pick up after our pets!
"jezzabella," Cousins, Senator Antenori, you g.. d....d liberals, get a life! Stop trying to legislate every aspect of our lives. Isn't Arizona a conservative state? All you liberals out there, leave the state and allow us conservatives to conduct our affairs as we see fit. Allow the court system to sort out our negligent behaviors like it has been doing for litterally centuries, but not nearly as long as since we humans first domesticated those ravenous wolves whom some few of us out there appear to still be fearing! Next thing you know, we dog lovers will be cast as terrorists! I'd speculate more people are harmed by second amendment gun toters than by dog attacks, especially if you throw out attacks by police dogs!
az-doug-500 posted at 10:07 am on Thu, Jan 26, 2012.
Leave things as they are Ms. Klein. Let your dog run free in your backyard.
Julia posted at 10:40 am on Thu, Jan 26, 2012.
This is the stupidist thing I've heard yet today (but it's early still). Yea, let's move away from self-responsibility and prevention.
eberdiet posted at 11:07 am on Thu, Jan 26, 2012.
This woman is truly an idiot. An insurance pay-out will never replace a mauled child, or valued pet that suffered an attack. The idea that well-behaved dogs always obey their owner is a myth - there is always a circumstance that can go wrong and the dog will refuse to obey in its excitement. And have you ever noticed how the best trained dogs that the police use frequently have to be energetically and forcefully restrained even when the suspect is under control? It would be nice if Klein would actually do something she is being paid to do - such as consider the welfare of her constituency.
brainfreeze posted at 11:27 am on Thu, Jan 26, 2012.
Really dumb idea. I do not care if the owner has insurance, I still do not want anyone bit or mauled. Plus the fact that dogs could run out into traffic, not only to be hit by a car but also causing collisions when someone swerves. Dumb, dumb idea.
Dale Whiting posted at 12:41 pm on Thu, Jan 26, 2012.
This piece has been posted now for about 5 & 1/2 hours. Let's take an inventory of the commenters and their apparent positions:
Against the Klein bill freeing up dog owners to let their dogs off leash if covered by insurance:
jezzabella, mesateacher [who'se been bitten], az-doug-500, julia [who'se in favor of self responsibility - thinking that this legislation moves away from that and away from prevention - Try taking on the second amendment next, girl], eberdiet, and brainfreeze [whose moniker appears to describe himself quite well].
Thinking this legislation is misplaced:
clkowel, and me, [the only ones taking a truely Conservative approach to this matter.]
So much for calling Arizona conservative! No gang! Arizona is populated by a bunch of neocons and this is proof positive. Conservatives would end leash laws and have civil courts control irresponsible dog owners. I am personally responsible for the acts of my dog. On today's off the leash walk, four ladies were charmed by him, and all sung his praises, being happy to have crossed our paths.
Klein's efforts to head in the direction of requring liability insurance as the quid pro quo for not using a lease is still misplaced. But at least she's headed in the right direction! The last thing we need is bigger government. And like politics, government begins at home!
Any of you wishing to meet my dog Lucky can start walking in my park![smile]
lippard posted at 2:24 pm on Thu, Jan 26, 2012.
"Klein said there is no reason that owners of responsible, well-behaved dogs should not be allowed to let them run free."
Yes, there is--there may be poorly behaved dogs on leash that react aggressively when "responsible, well-behaved dogs" come up to them off leash--it's called leash aggression, and can provoke a fight. I've seen it happen with loose, friendly dogs approaching on-leash dogs. Those same leash-aggressive dogs may be quite fine with other dogs if they are also off-leash, in a controlled environment like a dog park.
IMHO, there is no "responsible, well-behaved dog" without a "responsible, well-behaved" owner, and owners who allow their dogs to run around off-leash in uncontrolled public areas are not "responsible, well-behaved" owners.
Dale Whiting, you write that "In the private park near my home, my dog runs up to everyone he meets looking for, even begging for those ear scratches" -- if he also runs up to on-leash dogs who have leash aggression, you're likely to see one of those fights. (BTW, this is also the reason why dog parks have you take your dog off leash in a separate closed area before introducing the animal into the dog park.)
Garlen posted at 2:39 pm on Thu, Jan 26, 2012.
Why do some not get the show-stopper problem with this? It's not about nice dogs/owners...it's about the biker with 3 killer fighting dogs. If even one person can do it - then anybody can do it. And I'll bet that those in favor of this would be ok living next to that " little old grandmother with her little Chihuahua" but don't want to live next to that biker and his dogs with their family and pets. He could easily have $50K in liability insurance. And it would be illegal to treat him differently. Here's the thing: There's no reason a dog shouldn't be on a leash when exposed to the public. It's good for the dog, good for the owners and good for the public. BTW, $50K is nothing if you look at the medical costs for a severe dog mauling along with legal fees, pain & suffering, lost income, etc. - how about making that at least $1M in liability?
Juggernaut8000 posted at 2:44 pm on Thu, Jan 26, 2012.
I haven't heard of this Klein woman until now and an convinced she is a fool for wasting taxpayers dollar on proposing this.
Insured or not, if a dog runs up to me its gonna get shot. I'm not going to get bit by some stupid animal whose owner cannot control it.
Garlen posted at 3:36 pm on Thu, Jan 26, 2012.
It's pretty obvious that we're not really concerned about bad dogs - it's bad dog owners . And pretty much by definition, any dog owner who doesn't use a leash when their dog is exposed to the public is a bad dog owner. Any dog can become aggressive under the right (or wrong) circumstances and the leash protects everyone. Anybody remember the man who shot the dog and its owner up north? The legal hassles were endless. Want to be the next one to shoot or be shot? Come on folks, common sense says keep your dogs on a leash and avoid the possible confrontations.
Slabside posted at 4:34 pm on Thu, Jan 26, 2012.
@Dale, "Arizona is populated by a bunch of neocons and this is proof positive."
Oh my dear Lord! Only Captain Neo-Con would twist a leash law proposal into a hysterical "The Big Bad Conservatives" are coming to eat our children rant. Walgreens called Dale, the new prescription is ready for pick up fella!
azdoglover posted at 4:38 pm on Thu, Jan 26, 2012.
This is a HORRENDOUS idea and cannot believe it's even up for discussion. As an avid dog lover, I understand the desire to watch your dog run free, I get it. However, my former dog was amazingly well trained, under voice control, and great with every person and cat she met, HOWEVER, she did not like other dogs. I cannot tell you how many times I have been out with her on leash to be ambushed by other off leash dogs with their owners several feet behind yelling, "Don't worry, my dog is friendly!" Well Einsteins, how about the dogs that don't LIKE other dogs?? They then get upset when their precious babies are snapped or growled at.
There are big dogs who do amazingly well with other big dogs, but their prey drive is so hight that they may attack small dogs. Then there are dogs who may be frightened by small children and may bite, or worse. I could give a frick if someone has insurance or not. Money does not replace a pet or child who has been mauled, or the emotional distress that an attack or fight causes.
As a dog owner, I stopped taking my dog to a particular mountain preserve because I ran into this issue all too often.
When on hiking trails, several other issues come up. These are trails that are shared by horses, mountain bikers, and pedestrians. It is incredibly dangerous to have a dog off leash, no matter how well behaved, when there are cyclists and horses on the trail. I have seen dogs loose on trails and witnessed a poor mountain biker crashing to avoid colliding with a dog whose owner, once again, was several yards behind while the dog ran up ahead. There are other dangers for the dogs themselves, cactus, coyotes..the list goes on. I do not understand why any responsible dog owner would be "for" this law. I care about the safety and well being of ALL dogs.
This law sends a very bad message. It doesn not promote the welfare of all animals and children.
wdgnas posted at 6:09 am on Fri, Jan 27, 2012.
so much for smaller government.
k33j88 posted at 6:59 am on Fri, Jan 27, 2012.
Being an avid mountain biker, I take offense to those whose "ideal pet" runs up to me. I'm focused on respecting the trails, safe implementation of my advanced skills, and respecting those who share the outdoors. An unleashed animal, creates an unsafe environment, which may cause one to crash. If one of you mental midgets feels it's ok to have your animal "run up to me", then you might get a letter from my attorney.
WHAT posted at 2:02 pm on Fri, Jan 27, 2012.
1 more example why I need to move out of this backward state, from the arrogance of both Brewer & sheriff Joe. & now the off the wall politician Kline !! I'm outta here & with pleasure. let your dogs run free let em kill or get killed let them maul your kids , i'm taking my tax dollars back East where it's just a little bit more sane .
debsgaz posted at 3:21 pm on Fri, Jan 27, 2012.
Any responsible dog owner will keep it on a leash. And nobody mentioned the health hazard that dogs at large could cause. Sure, let them run wild and leave their droppings all over!
Juggernaut8000 posted at 7:56 am on Sat, Jan 28, 2012.
This is the exact reason women shouldn't be in politics. This dumb broad has wasted taxpayers money on some irrational bill that is foolish and makes little sense to anyone.
Tookie88 posted at 12:19 am on Thu, Mar 15, 2012.
No leash law if you have insurance to cover the damage your unleashed dog caused? This is a crazy law because leashed or unleashed, an owner can never tell when something will anger your beloved pup and they attack another dog, or worse, a child. At least with a leash, the owner has some control over their animal. There are dog parks cropping up all over the valley and give plenty of controlled spaces for dogs to roam and run freely.
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mcamba posted at 7:21 pm on Sun, Nov 18, 2012.
None of you have valid arguments against this law. A responsible owner has control of their dog even when the dog is off the leash. I have spent hours training my dog off leash and am fully aware of leash aggression. If a dog on a leash is approaching I have my dog heel and wait until I ask the owner if their dog is friendly on leash. My dog is trained to never go in the street and I always watch him as he's off leash. The best prevention is behavioral training with your dog. An aggressive dog on a leash can still escape or bolt outside when the front door is opened. The insurance part of this law I would assume is best for medical protection of the dog off leash, in the case it is hit by a car. I don't see why my dogs quality of life has to be sacrificed when he and I have gone through all the precautionary steps. Of course I believe there should be some certificate or license for a dog to be allowed off leash.